2nd Time Around Fishless Cycling 120gal Tank

[Ann7667]

Hello Eco 23,
I'm back from vacation now, starting my fishless cycle again with ammonia from TruValue Hardware which has ONLY Ammonia & water in it. This is what has happened so far . . .
7/6 - dosed tank to 4.0 ppm amm. (That took 1/2C amm)
7/7 - Amm still reads 4.0 ppm
7/8 - Amm at 1.5ppm (too dark for 1.0 and too light for 2.0 - so I figure it's at 1.5ppm); Check NitrItes and NitrItes are at that pale lavendar color of .25ppm. WOW I have NitrItes already
So I just checked the NitrAtes (what are the chances?) NitrAtes are 20ppm!! Temp was 91 deg. so I turned that down a notch.
So Eco should I dose it up to Amm 4ppm since the Amm is 1.5 or do I wait until tomorrow morning? I'm afraid that the Amm will drop below 1.0 if I wait.
In mid June when I tried to get the tank cycled, remember I put in too much Amm (of the good kind). So, since I was going out of town for 2 weeks, I decided to just let it go and work on it when I returned. I guess stuff has been happening in there in my absence. I'm so AMAZED!
So what is my next step? Dose it up to 4ppm now? That's what I'd like to do. Waiting for your reply.
Ann7667

 

[eco23]

Awesome! Letting it sit with ammo while you were gone was a great move! Everything looks phenomenal. I agree to dose it back up to 4ppm. I'd pick a time of day, and every 24 hours at that time check your levels and dose the ammonia back up to 4ppm accordingly.

You're off to a great start . You did an excellent job last time as well, it wasn't your fault the company misrepresented the contents of their "pure" ammonia. The ammonia I use is also from Tru Value (Blue Ribbon I think?), so I know personally that one is good to go.

Great job sticking with it and keep us updated on your progress!

 

[Deckape]

Hello Eco 23,
I'm back from vacation now, starting my fishless cycle again with ammonia from TruValue Hardware which has ONLY Ammonia & water in it. This is what has happened so far . . .
7/6 - dosed tank to 4.0 ppm amm. (That took 1/2C amm)
7/7 - Amm still reads 4.0 ppm
7/8 - Amm at 1.5ppm (too dark for 1.0 and too light for 2.0 - so I figure it's at 1.5ppm); Check NitrItes and NitrItes are at that pale lavendar color of .25ppm. WOW I have NitrItes already
So I just checked the NitrAtes (what are the chances?) NitrAtes are 20ppm!! Temp was 91 deg. so I turned that down a notch.
So Eco should I dose it up to Amm 4ppm since the Amm is 1.5 or do I wait until tomorrow morning? I'm afraid that the Amm will drop below 1.0 if I wait.
In mid June when I tried to get the tank cycled, remember I put in too much Amm (of the good kind). So, since I was going out of town for 2 weeks, I decided to just let it go and work on it when I returned. I guess stuff has been happening in there in my absence. I'm so AMAZED!
So what is my next step? Dose it up to 4ppm now? That's what I'd like to do. Waiting for your reply.
Ann7667

Glad you're back..
This time it'll work!

 

[Ann7667]

Okay Eco 23, I am definitely going to kick it up to 4.0 again and I'll keep you posted on what's happening. Can't believe so much is going on. I mean, there was no seed in the tank, no sponge from an established tank full of good little microbes. I am going to place your article on Fishless Cycling on a new fish group in Eugene called Aquaholics Anonymous, LOL, so they will know about this. Also I'll be sure to let my lfs know about it. This is new to almost everyone I've talked to. It's so nice not to have to sacrifice fish and make their little lives miserable to cycle a tank. I was determined not to do that. Poor little guys. Most of them die in the process and those who live have a terrible quality of life after it. So thank you so much for all the time and effort it took to write that article. It has been my fish bible.
Thank you DeckApe for your encouragement. I know it is going to work this time!
Eco 23 I am also using the Blue Ribbon Ammonia brand!

 

[eco23]

Feel free to share it with as many people as you like...good luck at the LFS though. To many, they would consider the guide as competition to their business. When people learn that answers aren't in bottles of chemicals, and all you need for a healthy aquarium is a bucket for water changes, a bottle of dechlorinator, a test kit and pure ammo to get started...it cuts into their bottom line a bit.

I'm glad it helped you...it didn't take long to put together, and hopefully it's saved a few fish from suffering and dying.

 

[Ann7667]

Exactly! And it would probably have taken a lot of fish for that size tank. You are right about the LFS though. But I did buy some bottled stuff from him to use as a starter although it didn't do anything. He's nice though, he even took a big sponge out of one of his established tanks for me to use as seed.
Now I'm getting excited about moving my fishies into their new home. But the tank will be completely ready for them when I do.

 

[eco23]

Exactly! And it would probably have taken a lot of fish for that size tank. You are right about the LFS though. But I did buy some bottled stuff from him to use as a starter although it didn't do anything. He's nice though, he even took a big sponge out of one of his established tanks for me to use as seed.
Now I'm getting excited about moving my fishies into their new home. But the tank will be completely ready for them when I do.

For the future...avoid the starters or "instant cycling" products whenever possible. Tetra Safestart and some seeded sponges on the market are somewhat respected...but almost anything else is a waste of money and can potentially develop a dangerously unstable bio-filter. What did you use?

 

[Ann7667]

One was a Tetra product and the other was called something like "Mid-Nite". But none of that is in my tank now. I thoroughly cleaned out the tank after the Totally (not so) Awesome Ammonia problem. I cleaned and tossed out media, pressure washed the canniste,r aquarium, scrubbed and rinsed and rinsed the aquarium, over and over and over again until there was not even one bubble. None of that is in the tank now. . . . just water and Blue Ribbon ammonia and the beneficial bacterial life that is now beginning to grow. My tank was super clean before I restarted this fishless process.

 

[eco23]

One was a Tetra product and the other was called something like "Mid-Nite". But none of that is in my tank now. I thoroughly cleaned out the tank after the Totally (not so) Awesome Ammonia problem. I cleaned and tossed out media, pressure washed the canniste,r aquarium, scrubbed and rinsed and rinsed the aquarium, over and over and over again until there was not even one bubble. None of that is in the tank now. . . . just water and Blue Ribbon ammonia and the beneficial bacterial life that is now beginning to grow. My tank was super clean before I restarted this fishless process.

Oh okay, the last set up, got it

You're on the right track now.

 

[Ann7667]

Thank you. And it took 1/4th of a cup Amm to bring it to Amm 4ppm. Also, the pH is 6.4, which is pretty low, but right now I'm focusing on Amm to NitrIte to NitrAte.

 

[eco23]

Thank you. And it took 1/4th of a cup Amm to bring it to Amm 4ppm. Also, the pH is 6.4, which is pretty low, but right now I'm focusing on Amm to NitrIte to NitrAte.

Sounds good. As long as the pH is stable...that's what is important. Is it naturally that low out of your tap? The cycling process can wreak havoc on your pH, and if you have naturally low alkalinity to your water, it makes you more susceptible to dramatic swings which can cause problems.

I'd test pH directly from your tap, if it is significantly higher than the tank...fill a glass with tap water, leave it sitting out for 24 hours (preferably with an air stone in it) and test after that time. If it is still much higher than the tank...it may be worth running a small bag of crushed coral in your filter to prevent issues your cycle may face in the future.

 

[Ann7667]

My mistake . . . the reading of the tap water is 7.6 and the water in the tank is ALSO 7.6. No problem.

 

[librarygirl]

Looking great so far! Nice to have you back!

 

[Ann7667]

Thank you. Nice to be back and nice to see my tank doing something once I got the right kind of ammonia!

 

[Ann7667]

Waiting for the amm to drop to 1ppm. It has been 2ppm for a few days.

 

[librarygirl]

Waiting for the amm to drop to 1ppm. It has been 2ppm for a few days.

I know, it's frustrating isn't it? I wait all day to test the water and then when I do it's tough waiting those 24 more hours to test again It's worse being on vacation this week; at least when I'm at work the daytime hours go by more quickly!

 

[Ann7667]

Help!

What am I doing wrong?
On 7/8
pH=6.4; Amm=1.5; NitrItes=.25; NitrAtes=20; Temp. 91
I turned down the temp. & dosed back up to Amm 4.0
I've check teh Amm daily and it has lowered to 2.0 and stayed there.
So this morning here are my numbers:
7/15
pH=6.4; Amm=1.5; NitrItes=0!!!; NitrAtes=20; Temp. 91 (still)
I turned down the temperature again about 5 deg. on both heaters.

So all my NitrItes are gone! I suppose that's because the temperature killed them. I'll keep my eye on the temperature a couple of times a day now until I get it to between 85 and 87 deg.

Should I redose up to 4.0 now? All my test kits are API and are new so I know the numbers are correct.

Would appreciate any advice you have.

 

[eco23]

What am I doing wrong?
On 7/8
pH=6.4; Amm=1.5; NitrItes=.25; NitrAtes=20; Temp. 91
I turned down the temp. & dosed back up to Amm 4.0
I've check teh Amm daily and it has lowered to 2.0 and stayed there.
So this morning here are my numbers:
7/15
pH=6.4; Amm=1.5; NitrItes=0!!!; NitrAtes=20; Temp. 91 (still)
I turned down the temperature again about 5 deg. on both heaters.

So all my NitrItes are gone! I suppose that's because the temperature killed them. I'll keep my eye on the temperature a couple of times a day now until I get it to between 85 and 87 deg.

Should I redose up to 4.0 now? All my test kits are API and are new so I know the numbers are correct.

Would appreciate any advice you have.

Hang on...this could be good news.

NitrItes don't die (they're a chemical), the only way they leave a fish tank is if they're converted or if you change the water. So unless you did a big water change...they're nitrAtes now

Are you sure the pH is 6.4 and not lower? It's possible you almost finished cycling, your pH crashed and it stunned the ammo > no2 bacteria. That's pretty common with lower alkalinity water which I'm sure you have.

I'd do a big pwc of ~75%, add in a TINY amount of FINELY ground up fish food...and wait a few days. If the pH did bottom out and shocked the bacteria, it can take a few days to recover. Just dose the ammo back up to 3-4ppm and we'll see what happens in the next few days

 

[Ann7667]

NitrItes don't die? I thought I was nurturing and growing little guys that love to eat ammonia. . . . sounds like NitrItes are what the little guys like to eat and then they turn the NitrItes into NitrAtes who some other little guys like to eat. LOL But it doesn't matter. What matters is that I read your post and do THAT.
Yes, the pH is 6.4 and has been that since I returned from vacation.
So, you want me to do a 75% water change, and then add in a tiny amount of finely ground up fish food (how much is a tiny amount for a 120 gallon tank?) and that will make the pH come back up.
Also, after the water change, I should dose back up to 3-4ppm Amm. Do I have that right?
It would be nice if the tank is almost cycled. But I'll only know that has happened once the NitrItes go from 3-4ppm to 0 in 24 hours.
Thank you for your help and I'll keep you posted.

 

[eco23]

NitrItes don't die? I thought I was nurturing and growing little guys that love to eat ammonia. . . . sounds like NitrItes are what the little guys like to eat and then they turn the NitrItes into NitrAtes who some other little guys like to eat. LOL But it doesn't matter. What matters is that I read your post and do THAT.
Yes, the pH is 6.4 and has been that since I returned from vacation.
So, you want me to do a 75% water change, and then add in a tiny amount of finely ground up fish food (how much is a tiny amount for a 120 gallon tank?) and that will make the pH come back up.
Also, after the water change, I should dose back up to 3-4ppm Amm. Do I have that right?
It would be nice if the tank is almost cycled. But I'll only know that has happened once the NitrItes go from 3-4ppm to 0 in 24 hours.
Thank you for your help and I'll keep you posted.

You've been nurturing and growing two types if bacteria, not the chemicals. The first type (Nitrosomonas) consume the ammonia and excrete nitrIte, and the second (Nitrobacter) eat the nitrItes and excrete nitrAte.

I forgot your tank is giant. A 50% pwc should be efficient instead of a 75% (trying to save you some work ). Just a pinch of food, like you were going to feed the fish...not a handful. Ground it up real good so it doesn't create mold and other potential problems while the tank sits.

If 6.4 is your natural pH value, it won't raise it, but the pwc will restore the buffers in the water to prevent stalls or get things moving again if it already did stall.

Be warned...if we still have trouble getting the ammo to drop to zero within 24 hours...I may send you to the store for a small bag of crushed coral. There's a newer section in the guide where I bring up CC for low pH / hardness / alkalinity water. My guess is that's what's happening with our friend you just learned the name of...Nitrosomonas

*Oh, and try to keep the temp between 77-86