4+ weeks of Cycling Fishless and no changes...what am I doing wrong?

[xxwolfpackof1xx]

Hey... Do you two both live in the same city by chance? If so, that would pretty much confirm that there IS something in the water.

when i pmd library awhile back she lives in RI too if she lives in same city i dont know why shes havein so much trouble

 

[librarygirl]

Wow thanks for all the replies everyone! I'll try to address everyone's questions in one reply:

No live sand, nothing living in my tank ATM (apparently not even bacteria ), just standard silk plants, 2 decor pieces and gravel.

I tried to find my water report online but apparently they don't post it. I'll have to call them to get a copy.

I did dose up Prime just now, maybe not enough though, I only added enough drops for the whole tank, I'll add more and see if it helps.

I tested my tap water previously: no nitrates or nitrites. There seems to be something weird with the ammo readings though; it starts off almost zero then after the water sits out for a while it goes up to 0.25 and once even to 0.5 but it may be reading the decontaminants. I'll have to get that water report. Wolfman: I live in Johnston, near the Johnston/Cranston line but technically in Johnston.

Maybe adding the Safe Start was a mistake, it was an impulse purchase and I was (am) desperate.

I did tape black plastic garbage bags over the glass areas of the tank so as to inhibit algae growth; could this be hindering the tank in any way? The tank has a cover and there is an opening at the back for the wires so air should be able to get in...would blocking the light be hurting it at all?

I'm trying to be patient but not seeing movement in the ammonia at all is very discouraging and I'm close to blowing the thing up. lol

Thanks for trying to help everyone.

 

[eco23]

Wow thanks for all the replies everyone! I'll try to address everyone's questions in one reply:

No live sand, nothing living in my tank ATM (apparently not even bacteria ), just standard silk plants, 2 decor pieces and gravel.

I tried to find my water report online but apparently they don't post it. I'll have to call them to get a copy.

I did dose up Prime just now, maybe not enough though, I only added enough drops for the whole tank, I'll add more and see if it helps.

I tested my tap water previously: no nitrates or nitrites. There seems to be something weird with the ammo readings though; it starts off almost zero then after the water sits out for a while it goes up to 0.25 and once even to 0.5 but it may be reading the decontaminants. I'll have to get that water report. Wolfman: I live in Johnston, near the Johnston/Cranston line but technically in Johnston.

Maybe adding the Safe Start was a mistake, it was an impulse purchase and I was (am) desperate.

I did tape black plastic garbage bags over the glass areas of the tank so as to inhibit algae growth; could this be hindering the tank in any way? The tank has a cover and there is an opening at the back for the wires so air should be able to get in...would blocking the light be hurting it at all?

I'm trying to be patient but not seeing movement in the ammonia at all is very discouraging and I'm close to blowing the thing up. lol

Thanks for trying to help everyone.

Seems like I'm always here, doesn't it? Lol. First on the ammo test...the time you record the result is 5 minutes after you've shaken it up. Have you been doing that with the tank water as well? Possible serious overdose of ammo in the tank?

Bags on the side wont hurt, I'd try and have access to air at the top though. If there's little bacteria floating around in the air...we want it to find it's way into the tank.

 

[librarygirl]

Seems like I'm always here, doesn't it? Lol. First on the ammo test...the time you record the result is 5 minutes after you've shaken it up. Have you been doing that with the tank water as well? Possible serious overdose of ammo in the tank?

Bags on the side wont hurt, I'd try and have access to air at the top though. If there's little bacteria floating around in the air...we want it to find it's way into the tank.

Thanks Eco. Yes with the tank water I test at 5 minutes.

I went looking for water reports and I did find one for the capitol city of Providence New & Improved Providence Water Internet Website which serves most of the population of RI but since I'm in Johnston, a local town, I'm not sure if I'm still on Providence water or Johnston water (they don't have their report online) and the listings for population served for Johnston are pretty small. I'm not sure how I would know which city I get my water from (my landlord pays the water bill for the building so I never see it), I'll call the Johnston Facility and see if they know. Also the Providence listing says the type of water is "Surface Water" and the Johnston type is "Purchased Surface Water" so Johnston could just be buying Providence's water and I'm using Providence water. But yeah this is confusing and I know nothing about how these things work lol

I did rip up my filter pad taking out the carbon and I poured some of the Safe Start right on the filter pad. Maybe I messed it up somehow and should just get a new one? I still have the BioWheel although not sure if that actually does anything. I wish I could talk to the tank and have it tell me what is wrong lol

 

[eco23]

Thanks Eco. Yes with the tank water I test at 5 minutes.

I went looking for water reports and I did find one for the capitol city of Providence New & Improved Providence Water Internet Website which serves most of the population of RI but since I'm in Johnston, a local town, I'm not sure if I'm still on Providence water or Johnston water (they don't have their report online) and the listings for population served for Johnston are pretty small. I'm not sure how I would know which city I get my water from (my landlord pays the water bill for the building so I never see it), I'll call the Johnston Facility and see if they know. Also the Providence listing says the type of water is "Surface Water" and the Johnston type is "Purchased Surface Water" so Johnston could just be buying Providence's water and I'm using Providence water. But yeah this is confusing and I know nothing about how these things work lol

I did rip up my filter pad taking out the carbon and I poured some of the Safe Start right on the filter pad. Maybe I messed it up somehow and should just get a new one? I still have the BioWheel although not sure if that actually does anything. I wish I could talk to the tank and have it tell me what is wrong lol

I wouldn't get rid of anything. If we've got any bacteria in there...we don't want to lose it. It does sound like your town purchases their water from a major municipality. I'll be interested to hear back from Seachem to see if they've got anything interesting to add. I'll be a bit busy today, but I'll do a little more research and I want to get ahold of a member here who does municipal water treatment.

 

[xxwolfpackof1xx]

you lve in a different section i live near Johnston memorial park so our water suply is differnt my water tested 000 everything do you still want the gravel? mabye some day this week we can figure something out

 

[librarygirl]

Conflicting advice

Well I went to another LFS today, they're supposed to be good and been around a while. I was hoping they'd feel bad for me and offer some media. They had a lot of fish! I fell in love with the Celestial Pearl Danios (Galazy Rasbora)....so pretty!!!

Anyway, I guess the shop is run by a husband and wife. The wife asked me if I needed help. I started to tell her I was cycling fishless with ammonia...and then she turned to her husband and said "she's doing that fishless thing with ammonia." So I started to talk to him.....

He said I'll never cycle the tank with ammonia as the bacteria aren't being fed anything. I said I'm using ammonia which takes the place of fish waste. He said "but what are you feeding it?". Then he asked about my PH. I told him it was higher than 7.6 on the API chart, before I could tell him the High PH was about 7.4 he shook his head again and said "you'll never cycle the tank with a PH over 6." From reading on here I've heard having a PH that low can stall the cycle. He suggested I drain the tank, get some PhDown and "throw some insignificant (his word) fish, a goldfish or something, in there and see how you do."

I left.

 

[xxwolfpackof1xx]

darn and i thoght you found a good lfs!

 

[librarygirl]

darn and i thoght you found a good lfs!

lol well their tanks looked good. Only saw one dead fish, which I guess is normal b/c every LFS and large chain store I've gone to so far had at least one tank with something dead in it. But all the fish were active and looked good. If I'm ever able to get fish I might buy from them since it's hard finding certain types of fish around here as it is and they have the Galaxy Rasboras which are gorgeous. But their advice stinks lol

 

[eco23]

It is absolutely sad, pathetic and disheartening IMO for a person who has made fish keeping his career choice to be not only uneducated, but also inhumane (again, IMO). Unfortunately, that seems to be the norm. Not everybody views fish as living animals that deserve to be provided the best we can offer them. That's why I've given up on even mentioning fishless cycling to the lfs's. It's just frustrating and stressful to me, lol.

 

[eco23]

BTW, I'm waiting to hear back from an Admin who does municipal water treatment for a living. I'll post if he knows of any treatment methods that are immune to the Prime. I'll post back here as soon as I hear back from him.

 

[Fishy123]

I'm in the same boat as you guys and I live across the country, so not on the same water supply. My ammonia never goes down but I periodically see nitrate, never nitrite though. About ready to list everything on Craigslist!

 

[eco23]

I just heard back from the Admin. Here's what he had to add...

"All water treatments are different for different states and counties but the principal is the same. In the beginning a compound with a heavy metal is added so it will pull the particle to the bottom. Then the cleaner water is skimmed off the top and further treated. I know we add ammonia, phosphates, Choramines, chlorine, flouride, heavy metals including alominum and iron. My only problem with those ammonia treatments are that they dont get rid of the ammonia. They just bind them up so that they are not as lethal. Probably you are talking about a FW tank but if it was me I would go with RO/DI water to make sure that the water is not the problem. I have an article about tap water and the reef in the articles section. Hope this helps."

My girl has me working in the yard today so I can't check out the article yet, but you guys are definitely welcome to read it over and also research into RO/DI water to see if it's something you're willing to invest in.

I'll check back in later

 

[librarygirl]

Because I'm a glutton for punishment, I checked levels again just now. I THINK ammo dropped from 2 to 1!

The first pic below is the ammonia from the other day, it looks a bit darker to me, more like 2 (it was also 2 last night when I tested, I just didn't take a pic last night). The second pic is the one from just now, looks a bit lighter, more like 1. NitrItes are still 0. NitrAtes still look 10-20 to me, at least 5 anyway, hard to tell between those oranges (posted a pic of these too in case anyone wants to help me interpret to make sure I'm reading correctly).

So, maybe something is happening? Huh? Yes? Please?

I added a small pinch of fish food last night, took the garbage bags off the front today for a while and I propped open the lid on the top of the tank so maybe some air and bacteria can get in there.

I really hope I'm reading these tests right, b/c if ammo is still the same I'm going to kill myself lol

 

[librarygirl]

I'm in the same boat as you guys and I live across the country, so not on the same water supply. My ammonia never goes down but I periodically see nitrate, never nitrite though. About ready to list everything on Craigslist!

Sorry to hear you are having trouble too. I know how you feel. I'm thinking, at what point do I give up and sell off everything? I've invested so much time and money already though I'd hate to do it. I'm giving my tank until the end of the month then if it isn't cycled by then or isn't showing signs of being close then I think I'm going to give up. How long have you been trying to cycle your tank?

 

[jetajockey]

One issue I've had with smaller tanks and cycling is not having enough surface area for biofiltration in the filter, taking longer for the bacteria to colonize. I don't know if that's a problem here but just thought I'd share.

I had a 10g with a little junky top fin filter on it, and it cycled substantially slower than a similar one with a sponge over the filter intake.

 

[xxwolfpackof1xx]

good news is you have trate! how come your ammo test is so clear mines always murky you can tell the level but the soloution is murkky for some odd reason

 

[xxwolfpackof1xx]

Sorry to hear you are having trouble too. I know how you feel. I'm thinking, at what point do I give up and sell off everything? I've invested so much time and money already though I'd hate to do it. I'm giving my tank until the end of the month then if it isn't cycled by then or isn't showing signs of being close then I think I'm going to give up. How long have you been trying to cycle your tank?

don't sell it if anything give it to me and il cycle it for you

 

[eco23]

Because I'm a glutton for punishment, I checked levels again just now. I THINK ammo dropped from 2 to 1!

The first pic below is the ammonia from the other day, it looks a bit darker to me, more like 2. The second pic is the one from just now, looks a bit lighter, more like 1. NitrItes are still 0. NitrAtes still look 10-20 to me, at least 5 anyway, hard to tell between those oranges (posted a pic of these too in case anyone wants to help me interpret to make sure I'm reading correctly).

So, maybe something is happening? Huh? Yes? Please?

I added a small pinch of fish food last night, took the garbage bags off the front today for a while and I propped open the door on the top of the tank to feed the fish so maybe some air and bacteria can get in there.

I really hope I'm reading these tests right, b/c if ammo is still the same I'm going to kill myself lol

That is definitely a reading of 1ppm . Let's just not break out the party decorations (or a sledge hammer for the tank) yet . If it's started dropping, it's gonna really start speeding up in the next few days, let's tack on a little more patience and see what happens.

Here's a link to that article if you want to check it out-
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articles/articles/123/1/Tap-Water-in-the-Saltwater-Reef/Page1.html

 

[eco23]

One issue I've had with smaller tanks and cycling is not having enough surface area for biofiltration in the filter, taking longer for the bacteria to colonize. I don't know if that's a problem here but just thought I'd share.

I had a 10g with a little junky top fin filter on it, and it cycled substantially slower than a similar one with a sponge over the filter intake.

That is a common thread that the tanks I hear about having problems are of the smaller variety. Definitely a possibility. It may be a good idea to completely pull the tops off them while cycling since there's no need for the hood lights anyway if the tank isnt planted with plants that require lots of lighting.