4+ weeks of Cycling Fishless and no changes...what am I doing wrong?

[librarygirl]

There may not be an answer to this, but I'm at my wit's end here.....

I've been fishless cycling this tank (12 gal bowfront) since May 1 (before that I had fish in the tank for 3 weeks before they all died after a large pwc-- I'm guessing PH shock, but I'll never know for sure--...I always kept ammo less than 0.25 and never saw nitrates or nitrites).

Since then I've:
Turned up the air stone
Turned up the heat to 85 degrees F
Dosed with pure ACE Hardware ammonia
Tried adding a small amount of ground-up fish food (which turned the water cloudy the next day)

After about 3 weeks of this there were no drops in ammonia and no nitrates or nitrites. I then purchased a "seeded" sponge filter online and installed it maybe two Saturdays ago. The next day the ammonia dropped from about 2 to 0.5 and I saw nitrAtes between 0 and 5, but no nitrItes. I was hopeful, so I dosed the ammonia back up to 3-4 and there it has stayed. The other levels stayed the same also except for a slight rise in NitrAtes to 5.

After another week I got discouraged again so last weekend I cut up the sponge filter and put what I could fit next to the tank's current filter, drained most of the water out, and added Tetra Safe Start.

Since adding the SafeStart last Sunday my nitrAtes went up to between 10 and 20 but ammonia is holding at 2 and no nitrItes at all ever.

What should I do, if anything? I'm at a loss here...
Should I buy a new filter and start over? Should I try Ph Down? More fish food? Pack up the tank and give up (I'm soo close to doing this)?

Please help me

 

[43Gallons]

You may not be having as much trouble as you think you are! If you are seeing nitrates, then there were nitrites at some point (ammonia never goes straight to nitrate). It could be that you are reading the nitrite level wrong. I wouldn't be discouraged; it sounds like you're headed in a good direction!

 

[kingman8610]

What all do you have in ur tank, lr? Live sand?

 

[eco23]

Hey libraygirl, we've obviously been working together on this for quite some time. I've read back through your posting history and I'm starting to think something is odd with the actual water supply. I know for a fact you've been doing everything right (correct ammo, using Prime to dechlor, air stone, temp up, etc...). No pun intended, but something is fishy here. The fact you had fish and saw no appearance of no2 or no3 plus all the time you've been fishless cycling without movement definitely doesn't add up for me. Is there a way you can get a printout of your city / county water report? I work for a water purification company, so I'm fairly familiar with the different disinfectants they use...but I'm really starting to think there's something in there that just doesn't want these little bacteria to grow. The fact no3 appears to be rising could be a good sign (odd, but these cycling products work in mysterious ways), but in order for that to be happening I would think you would need to see a constant ammo reduction so it would actually be getting converted to no2 and finally increasing the no3. See if you can do a little research online and tell me if you find anything interesting

 

[Homedog98]

You may not be having as much trouble as you think you are! If you are seeing nitrates, then there were nitrites at some point (ammonia never goes straight to nitrate). It could be that you are reading the nitrite level wrong. I wouldn't be discouraged; it sounds like you're headed in a good direction!

Unless your using old media. I am, and with daily testing I have nitrates and ammonia, with no nitrites.

 

[kingman8610]

Lol

 

[Homedog98]

King man... Did you think we were talking about saltwater? Rofl. It's ok. We all have those days.

 

[eco23]

Unless your using old media. I am, and with daily testing I have nitrates and ammonia, with no nitrites.

But you're seeing daily reduction of ammonia. It's possible that "instant cycling" products may contain a form of bacteria which is more efficient at converting no2 into no3...but since nitrAtes are the end product of the nitrifying bacteria converting ammo > no2 > no3, you would need to have nitrItes in the tank for the bacteria to actually turn it into nitrAtes. It's possible that the no2 to no3 bacteria could be prevalent enough to keep the no2 below readable ranges...but you would still have to have an active reduction in ammonia for the process to be happening at all.

Remember too that fish produce ammonia, not no2...so if you're not seeing any reduction in the levels of ammonia...the increase of nitrAtes will basically do squat once fish are introduced.

Sorry...even sounds confusing to me sometimes, lol.

 

[eco23]

The last idea I've got left for you would be to add a triple dose of Prime to hopefully detoxify anything in there that's hindering the bacteria from colonizing. It'd also be a smart idea to shoot Seachem (people who make Prime) an email asking if they're familiar with any type of disinfectant used in municipal water which their product might not neutralize. It's one last Hail Mary pass, but tbh...I'm running out of ideas. I'd recommend throwing a bunch of plants in...but with the seeded media you've already tried, I don't think it'd provide anything other than something to look at.

 

[firteen888]

Hey libra, I know what you're going through bc I'm in the same exact boat. I've been working with Eco as well to try and figure out the problem, he's been a HUGE help. I have a feeling that me and you are having the same problem, now if we can just figure it out lol.

You say you're seeing some nitrates....have you tested your tap water for nitrates by any chance? My tap water has about 5ppm of nitrates in it.

 

[eco23]

Hey libra, I know what you're going through bc I'm in the same exact boat. I've been working with Eco as well to try and figure out the problem, he's been a HUGE help. I have a feeling that me and you are having the same problem, now if we can just figure it out lol.

You say you're seeing some nitrates....have you tested your tap water for nitrates by any chance? My tap water has about 5ppm of nitrates in it.

Haha. My two most difficult cases together in one thread, lol. I agree there is a common bond between the two of you...now to just figure it out.

 

[firteen888]

I've been thinking maybe it's something in our tap water as well. How would we go about getting this water report?

 

[eco23]

I've been thinking maybe it's something in our tap water as well. How would we go about getting this water report?

You may be able to find it online on the city / county website, or legally I think they have to provide it if you request it from them. The Prime recommendation I made above may be a good idea in your case as well.

 

[firteen888]

Email sent will post their response when I get one.

 

[kingman8610]

This is a fw thread? Sheesh, lol ok well goodluck! Must BE one of those days haha

 

[xxwolfpackof1xx]

library where do you live in ri?

 

[tulip55555]

I have been going through the same thing. 4 weeks into cycle..Started with Nutrafin Cycle (which claims to cycle the tank, but in research i've found that is not true at all-it does not contain the proper bacteria)-chemistry looked great, added fish, got ammonia spike to 1ppm. That was week 1. Started to see nitrites, and then some nitrates, added Stress Zyme (similar to safe start) in an effort to move things along and the nitrites disappeared. I have always had some nitrates and I determined that some came from my tap water, but I assume that some increase was from the Zyme consuming the nitrites.

Here is what I have learned in my online research...the biological additives DO NOT contain NITRIFYING BACTERIA necessary for the development of the biological filter. They contain bacteria that keep other bacteria not necessary to the biological filter at bay in order to keep those bad bacteria from consuming the good bacteria. If you read the bottles they all say that they "aid the development" or "make the water safe for fish" not that they establish the filter absolutely. Chemicals that remove chlorine from the water "make the water safe for fish" too.

In short, there are no shortcuts. I have spent a few bucks to learn that lesson just like you. I finally got some filter media and gravel from an established tank today. As far as that goes-i've read anywhere from a day to a month for that to develop enough of a colony to consider myself "cycled" Patience is apparently the key here, and I'm in short supply. My LFS has some beautiful Koi Angelfish with my name on them and if I don't cycle before they're gone I might lose my mind!!

 

[eco23]

I have been going through the same thing. 4 weeks into cycle..Started with Nutrafin Cycle (which claims to cycle the tank, but in research i've found that is not true at all-it does not contain the proper bacteria)-chemistry looked great, added fish, got ammonia spike to 1ppm. That was week 1. Started to see nitrites, and then some nitrates, added Stress Zyme (similar to safe start) in an effort to move things along and the nitrites disappeared. I have always had some nitrates and I determined that some came from my tap water, but I assume that some increase was from the Zyme consuming the nitrites.

Here is what I have learned in my online research...the biological additives DO NOT contain NITRIFYING BACTERIA necessary for the development of the biological filter. They contain bacteria that keep other bacteria not necessary to the biological filter at bay in order to keep those bad bacteria from consuming the good bacteria. If you read the bottles they all say that they "aid the development" or "make the water safe for fish" not that they establish the filter absolutely. Chemicals that remove chlorine from the water "make the water safe for fish" too.

In short, there are no shortcuts. I have spent a few bucks to learn that lesson just like you. I finally got some filter media and gravel from an established tank today. As far as that goes-i've read anywhere from a day to a month for that to develop enough of a colony to consider myself "cycled" Patience is apparently the key here, and I'm in short supply. My LFS has some beautiful Koi Angelfish with my name on them and if I don't cycle before they're gone I might lose my mind!!

Words of wisdom from someone who has done their research and learned through experience. Thanks. You make a great point that there are no shortcuts. When a product is actually developed that truly colonizes a functional, capable bio-filter in a bottle...I will happily delete my guide and instead post a picture of that product. In the mean time...we'll keep getting everyone cycled the right way and work through the challenges some people face along the way. Thank you for your post

 

[Homedog98]

Hey... Do you two both live in the same city by chance? If so, that would pretty much confirm that there IS something in the water.

 

[JimmyA]

Make sure you don't get nitrites and nitrates mixed up.