A different way to cycle

[Arshis]

How do I know when my cycle is complete?

And if I removed some of the water wont I be removeing the bacteria I need to complete the cycle?

BTW- Thanks for the move lol

 

[rich311k]

No bacteria in the water. Change as often as needed. Your fish will love you for it. You are cycled when you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and some amount of nitrate.

Here is an article explaining the cycle: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=21

Do you know someone witrh established freshwater tank? You could borrow some of thier media. It will move things along faster.

 

[Arshis]

Update: 12/20/05

Yesterday I did as you said rick I changed 50% of the water.
Ammonia : 1.0 ppm
Nitrite : 0.5 ppm
Nitrate : 0 ppm

 

[rich311k]

Your cycle is starting. I would change water again. You want that ammonia down some more. With all of your big cichlids you will be changing a lot of water. In 4 - 6 weeks you will be done.

 

[Arshis]

And will add that my 2 mystery african cichlids were returned to the store.

I guess my biggest question is when cycleing tank with fish in it. Every time I remove half my water I remove my nh3/nh4 that i need to make my no2 and no3.

 

[rich311k]

Enough stays behind to grow bacteria. If it gets to high fish will die or at least suffer and have shortened lives.

 

[severum mama]

I'm sure you didn't know this when you bought your fish (and if you're like me, you probably got some bad advice from your LFS), but you're going to run into some major problems when your fish get bigger. Green terrors get big, about 13 inches I believe, and one GT itself would need a 75 gallon IMO. Plus, the GT will likely become very aggressive as it grows- from what I understand, they really earn the name "terror"! The Jack Dempseys will also get large, and would probably need 75 gallons just to themselves. One full grown Oscar can reach 14 inches and would be best in a minimum of 75 gallons for itself. I think red devils stay smaller than Os or GTs (I might be wrong though), but like GTs are very aggressive. I'm guessing that your pink cichlid is a pink (albino) convict, which only grows from 5-7 inches, but might take a beating from your other fish. One of these days, you'll probably have to choose to either find new homes for a few of your cichlids, or buy multiple large tanks (75 gallons or larger). Not that there's anything wrong with owning a bunch of tanks- plenty of us here do (myself included)!

Good luck with your cycle, and keep testing that water!

 

[RoK]

If you're going to cycle with fish you should probably bring all but 1 cichlid back or do it the safest way which is fishless.
Scaleless fish such as catfish, plecos, etc. are more sensitive than most with scales and should only be put in established tanks IMO.

 

[Arshis]

I would return my fish if possible but its to late now. I still have
1 Oscar,
1 Green terror
2 Jack
1 chinese alge eater
1 eye biter
1 pink cichlid
1 blue channel catfish
3cory
1 red devil

and i only have one 10 gallon tank and somehow it seems more unlogical to place all my fish in a 10 gallon tank while my 75 gallon tank cycles. again shouldnt there be a way i can get no3 and just add it to my tank. say if i were to do a quicker cycle with a smaller tank?

 

[Arshis]

And yes I know these fish get rather large I do plan on getting a 2nd larger tank and grouping them off as they get larger but who they can get "along" with

At the moment my oscar and eye biter dont seem to ever brawl.

While my 2 jacks have formed a very tight bond and often allow the green terror to swim with them.

While the red devil seems to only dislike the gt and jacks.

Though I guess their feelings may change over time I'll be mindful to keep a close eye on who can tolerate who.

As of now none of my fish are longer than 4 inches so they all have plently of room to grow for the next 4 months or so untill I have my next aquarium set up. Planning on getting a 200+ gallon but where would you find a monster filter to clean this kinda tank.

 

[TomK2]

post deleted. I had responded to the first post, never realizing that there were already 5 pages of posts already made. Thus, whatever I had to say was Waaaay behind the thread. My Duh. Carry on!

 

[jsoong]

My 2 cents worth:

You can carry on with large water changes daily for the next 4-6 weeks & establish the cycle the old fashion way ... but I think there are options that had not been mentioned.

1. If you have a friend with an established tank, you can borrow some of the good bacteria for your tank - that will greatly speed up the process.

2. You can buy the bacteria - that's Biospira - & add that for a near instant cycle.

3. My lfs has "mature" bioballs in their tanks for sale. Basically they are selling the bacteria - as biospira is not avialable in Canada for some reason.

4. You can go & ask the lfs for a used filter sponge - or failing that, have them give you some squeezing from an old sponge to get at the bacteria.

I generally am wary of lfs's tank - as they may carry diseases. However, if you get the filter or squeezings from the same one that sold you the fish - you are no worse off. <BTW - I think they should be helping you with the cycling .... since they sold you all those fish without finding out if you have a cycled tank or not!>

Also - you keep refering to moving the fish to new - smaller tanks .... That is NOT the way to go. Cycling is easiest in a big tank - if you are having trouble with the big tank, moving the fish off to smaller tanks will make matter worse. The wate quality in a small tank will deteriorate much quicker than a big tank & your fish won't make it through the cycling process. So you are basically stuck with the fish you've got in the 75.

One last thing - I know you are dreaming of a 200 gal. For now you need to get the 75 working first. Once you ahve one cycled tank, you can transfer the bacteria to all the other tanks you want to set up, without having to go through a complete initial cycle. And filter for a 200 - you'll want a good cannister filter (or two or three )

Good luck!

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I'm looking at getting a 180G+ as well. Was looking at a 300G. But for the filters, was looking at running 2 Emperor 400's and 2 Filstar XP3's. So if I do that, should be plenty of filtration.

and yes, get the 75G going and cycled first. You will not only be better off, but will be less stressed and can go at a more comfortable pace. And with a cycled 75G, like stated above, you will have plenty of cycled material to either speed up or instantly cycle the larger tank. Good luck.

 

[Arshis]

Update 12/22/05

Over the last 16ish hours the tanks water has become alot more cloudy.
However the fish seem be a little bit more stressed, more small random chases and nipping at fins. They are still hungury as usual though.

PH: 6.8
Ammonia: 4.0 ppm
Nitrite: 0.5 ppm
Nitrate: 5.0 ppm
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Quotes:
1. If you have a friend with an established tank, you can borrow some of the good bacteria for your tank - that will greatly speed up the process.
I wish I seem to be the only one out of my friends who loves fishies.

2. You can buy the bacteria - that's Biospira - & add that for a near instant cycle.
I'll have to look into this, but I've been to many pet stored and havent heard of this. How much does this cost?? btw

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Is it about time for a 50% water change?

 

[bosk1]

You absolutely must keep the ammonia under 1.0. As soon as it approaches 1, you should do a water change. Since you are at 4.0, you should definitely do a water change, and then check in a few hours and repeat if necessary. As long as you are dechlorinating the water each time, the water changes should not adversely affect your fish at all. In fact, they should love the water changes. But you've got to do one ASAP. And even though you have fish that, by nature, love to eat, be very careful about feedings. Your ammonia will continue to spike unless you keep the feeding minimal. There is no harm in them getting a little less to eat than they otherwise should.

I saw a post earlier where you were asking if you could just add nitrate. Well, you could, but that's not the point. Adding nitrate does not help the tank. Nitrates are bad. They are just much less bad than ammonia and nitrite. The reason the presence of nitrates seems good is because it indicates you have bacteria that are breaking down the ammonia and nitrite. What you are really after is establishing that bacteria. There are only two ways to get it: (1) let it develope on its own by cycling the tank; or (2) get some from another source. I saw that others have recommended other sources. If you can get used filter media from an established tank, that will work. Otherwise, if you can afford a complete dose for your 75, Bio-spira works very well. If you go that route, just make sure to keep it refrigerated and follow the instructions carefully so you don't end up wasting it.

 

[jsoong]

ECHO the above ---- water change ---- NOW!!! You need to change out at least 75% of your water to get NH3 down to 1.

You could do a big change all at once --- IF you are absolutely sure that the change water match your tank water in all parameters - temperature, pH, Hardness, etc. Even then, I would drip the new water in over 1/2 hr or so - to avoid shock to fish.

Safer way is to do 50% changes - you'll need to do 2 or 3 of that today <and everyday till you are cycled!>

You seem to be having an uncontrolled NH3 spike <lucky your pH is lowish - at high pH, NH3 is less ionized & more toxic & would have Killed the fish>. To buy you some time, you can consider using an NH3 binder like Amquel or Prime as your water conditioner - these will give your fishies a bit of insurance in between water changes .... note that you STILL need to do the water changes.

Re: Biospira - no idea how much is the going price - you'll only find that in specialty FISH stores - phone around & see if there's any in your area.

 

[jsoong]

And the cloudy water - that is prob from heterotrophic bacteria in the tank due to the high NH3 - get rid of the NH3 & the water should clear.

 

[bosk1]

The Bio-Spira at my lfs was around $20-25 for 3 oz., which is sufficient to treat up to 90 gal., if I recall correctly. I think the 1 oz. (for 30 gal.) was about $10. That's what I went with for a 55 because (1) 3 oz. would have been overkill and they didn't have a 2 oz. pack; (2) I was toward the end up my cycle and just needed a quick emergency boost; and (3) my bioload was pretty light for the tank size. The dose I added did the trick. I did a pwc to lower my nitrites immediately, and then added the Bio-Spira. Next morning, my parameters were perfect. Arshis, in your case, you would need the 3 oz. dose. I would do a big water change ASAP, and then head on down to the lfs for the Bio-Spira. Do another 50+% or so pwc when you get back, and then add the Bio-Spira.

 

[Arshis]

My friend who is a long time owner of fw tanks has jsut informed me of an alternate method. He said to get a biowheel and just let it do all the work and to not change water cause fish are adaptable . Hes had fish for the last 15 years, large cichlids.

 

[bosk1]

Well, it sounds like you've made up your mind then. But the collective experience of this board has told you that ammonia levels as high as yours kill fish and/or permanently damage their gills. Biowheels, while great things, will not immediately remove the ammonia. Well, anyway, best of luck with your plan.