A Friendly Hello :) - new tank cycle

[Mumma.of.two]

Thanks fishless cycle much appreciated, great info
Hi Mumma.of.two thanks, many aussies on here? and Thankyou for the links and advice

I talked to my parents and im taking all the gravel, and the filter media, and starting the old tank on a fresh cycle with new media

with fish the size of the 3-4" (ish? ) gourami how many could I look at stocking in the 80L tank? looking at bolivian rams, electric yellow, discus, other cichlids... I have bigger tanks that are understocked to accomodate when they outgrow thier territory.

No problem. There are a few of us about but not as many as people from the states or the uk.

The fish you have there aren't compatible. The rams and discus are from SA and the electric yellow (aka yellow lab) is an African mbuna from lake Malawi. Completely different types of cichlids. Because the tank is only 80L it is too small for malawis and discus. You could have a pair of rams (m&f) a single gourami (they are territorial with own species) and a school of smaller fish. There is room for a few guppies also.

 

[Rlavassor86]

Oh yea I didn't catch that you had 2 gourami. I've heard of people having success with 2 but in larger aquariums. Chances are they will not get along very long. Correct me if I'm wrong please, but gourami are related to betta and will fight with other gourami same as 2 male betta.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Thanks for posting and for your input on the other types of cycling. Just because cycling with fish is 'traditional' and the way it's always been done doesn't make it the right way! However, I will have a good read through all the links - so thank you for that and the info on ammonia - I found that really interesting

I promote fishless cycling as too many fish suffer at the early stages because of lack of information and lack of clear guidance on what the nitrogen cycle is all about. Lfs don't help either, in my experience. Too many fish die for newbies because many don't even know what the nitrogen cycle is etc. So long as the 'fish in cycle' is done step by step and with care then I can't see how it wouldn't work...??? So long as the ammonia levels are at a stage that won't be damaging. I haven't tried this way before and I wasn't aware of this so thank you.

You are right that the old way of fish in cycling is wrong. I would never suggest that to anyone. It involved getting a tank full of 'hardy' fish and leaving them to tough out the cycle. What I'm suggesting is the very light stocking of a tank and water changes during the cycling period.

It's about the education of new hobbyists. They need to understand the nitrogen cycle but also understand that there is no one true answer when it comes this hobby. Fishless cycling isn't the be all and end all. There isn't going to be mass deaths or suffering in a tank that is being fish in cycled as long as it is done correctly.

 

[Rlavassor86]

Wow I had no idea people used to cycle tanks that way. That sounds horrible. How was that ever deemed an appropriate way to cycle a tank?

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Wow I had no idea people used to cycle tanks that way. That sounds horrible. How was that ever deemed an appropriate way to cycle a tank?

There was no Internet and not as much information on the nitrogen cycle as there is now. Cycling info was shared through word of mouth and things where believed like the nitrifying bacteria colonized the water and large water changes did more harm than good. Sacrificing cheap fish for the health of the more expensive fish was the done thing.

 

[Rlavassor86]

There was no Internet and not as much information on the nitrogen cycle as there is now. Cycling info was shared through word of mouth and things where believed like the nitrifying bacteria colonized the water and large water changes did more harm than good. Sacrificing cheap fish for the health of the more expensive fish was the done thing.

Yea that makes sense. Still horrible to hear though. This must have been quite a long time ago though. I've been in the hobby for a little over 14 years and even back then I knew about cycling.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

The problem is that people hold onto the 'old ways' of doing things even though new information is available. People still believe that the water in a tank is cycled and can cycle new tanks. I mean they knew of cycling but not all the facts about the bacteria, etc. You see examples of this in some fish stores.

 

[Rlavassor86]

The problem is that people hold onto the 'old ways' of doing things even though new information is available. People still believe that the water in a tank is cycled and can cycle new tanks. I mean they knew of cycling but not all the facts about the bacteria, etc. You see examples of this in some fish stores.

Yea I can say I was one of them when i first started out that thought the water held BB thanks to the LFS(out of biz now, and for good reason) for leading me to believe that.

 

[Sean93]

thanks, interesting about the gouramis, can anyone guide me on sexing them? I've kept gouramis a few times, and never had trouble in pairs, they have shared a 35L for the last 6 months and are always side by side.
EDIT:: Had a quick look on google, and i have 2 female gourami

Thanks for all the cycing advice guys, whats the best way to clean and prepare the tank/ornaments for fish?

 

[Sean93]

The gourami tend to hold down the top of the tank,
what if I buy a quite small discus, 5-6cm and move it about before it hits 10, into another discus tank?

so then looking at 2F gourami
1M 1F Bolivian ram
1 discus
6 tetras
6 guppies

what do you think?

 

[Rlavassor86]

I generally advise against housing fish in anything other than a tank that's large enough for an adult sized fish. Reason being if not moved in time it can stunt growth and a lot of times you can't tell a fish is being stunted until damage has already been done.

 

[Rlavassor86]

Now I'm not saying that it can't be done successfully, its just not something I myself would do.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

I generally advise against housing fish in anything other than a tank that's large enough for an adult sized fish. Reason being if not moved in time it can stunt growth and a lot of times you can't tell a fish is being stunted until damage has already been done.

Agreed. I would advise against the discus. They are schooling fish and are quite finicky about water conditions. 80L just isn't big enough.

 

[Sean93]

alright, thanks for the advice guys

No discus in this tank then I guess how big of a tank would you recommend for a pair of discus? might just have to get another tank.. If I can find room for it haha
I might find that its stocked enough anyway... hopefully

 

[CharlieKlein]

From my reserch. Discus need 5 an. A 55-75 gallon tank. They can be kept with rumynose tetras

 

[Sean93]

Thankyou!

 

[Sean93]

the gouramis have been kicked out and replaced by 2 Red Tiger oscars...in a 35L tank, too small for the oscars, not very happy with my parents for doing this, as this means that the gouramis are now in with an electric yellow, frontosa and a rainbow shark, however this also means i can fishless cycle my tank properly, with new media.

also my tank is actually 100L

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Oh wow! What horrible stocking! That tanks only big enough for a betta, some nano fish or shrimp. Please try and educate your parents. Oscars and frontosa get larger than the tank itself!

 

[Sean93]

Oh wow! What horrible stocking! That tanks only big enough for a betta, some nano fish or shrimp. Please try and educate your parents. Oscars and frontosa get larger than the tank itself!

sorry maybe I wasn't clear,there is only 2 very small oscars, about 2 inches in the 35L tank... The frontosa is around 6-8inches same with the electric yellow, and a 3 inch rainbow shark, and are in a 250L tank with the 2 gouramis...

 

[Mumma.of.two]

sorry maybe I wasn't clear,there is only 2 very small oscars, about 2 inches in the 35L tank... The frontosa is around 6-8inches same with the electric yellow, and a 3 inch rainbow shark, and are in a 250L tank with the 2 gouramis...

That's still horrific stocking I'm sorry to say. The frontosa and the yellow lab will destroy the grouramis if given the chance. 2 inch oscars can reach 12 inches each within a year. They are messy, fast growing, aggressive fish that need a minimum 500L tank for the pair of them with massive amounts of filtration. The 35L tank with two 2 inch long oscars is already overstocked.