Almost cycled?

[FishyPhil]

Hi everyone. Im on day 28 of my fishless cycle and i think i might be close to finished? Basically over the last two nights i have experienced PH crashes due to massive nitites (from what I've been reading the bacteria must be using up all the buffers in the water!) I have done 3 water changes over that time, one up to 90%. After the big one nitrites were still showing strong, but this morning they were at 0 (yay!?)

I was dosing ammonia two times per day as the bacteria was chewing up 5ppm in 12 hours, but obviously this is what appears to have caused my PH crash. I did lower the ammonia to 2ppm yesterday and that still got eaten up, and nitrates are over 100. PH seems to be stable at 7. Should i be optimistic that i have built up a large enough colony of nitrite eating bacteria at this stage? Or could the PH crash caused damage to the bacteria? Although i guess if that was the case then there would still be loads of nitrites?!

Perhaps i can start getting excited! I think i might have caught and dealt with the PH crash just in time! But time will tell i guess!

If i will be getting fish soon (after qualifying period of course) can i get your thoughts on which fish to introduce first? I am thinking of having a shoal of rummys and cardinals, and perhaps four yellow rams and a bristlenose. I was thinking of doing half of the fish then adding another half a week or two later. Or should i do them all together?

Many thanks!

33 gallon fluval roma

 

[librarygirl]

It looks very promising. I'd only dose ammonia once in 24 hours eevn if you test at the 12 hour mark and it's gone. You don't want to overwhelm the bacteria and adding 4ppms per day is more than sufficient. It's hard to say for sure so let's start the qualifying period and dose ammonia to 4 once every 24 hours for at least a few more days and see what happens. If ammonia and nitrite stay at 0 then I'd say you're good to go.

One of the benefits of fishelss cycling is that you can add all of your stock at once after the cycle is done, so you can certainly do that. You can do it slowly of course but then the bacteria will adjust down to the fish you haev so when you add more the toxins may spike briefly but as long as you test and do water changes as needed until the bacteria readjust it won't be anything to worry about. I think your stocking plan sounds great.Your tank looks good too!

 

[Snowfire]

Hi FishyPhil,

Thought I would come over to your thread to have a look!
Your tank looks great! Looks like you're nearly ready to add fish
I like your ideas for stocking, sounds like you've given it a lot of thought.
Do you have hard or soft water? I had issues with pH dropping in my first tank and used coral sand in a piece on old nylon stocking as a buffer. My water is really soft though.

 

[FishyPhil]

Thank you for the advice librarygirl! I did take it and so far i've been getting 0 ammo 0 nitrites after 24 hours. My only concern is the PH still, as this is consistently dropping back to 6.5 each time after a water change! Mt tap water is roughly neutral at 7 and I do have a piece of mopani bog wood which I have heard can lower PH? Should I now be thinking that my natural PH is 6.5? Is this ok, or could it cause my cycle to revert?

Hi Snowfire! Thank you for your comments. I have done a lot of research over the last month! I think the fishless cycle is certainly great in that aspect while you're waiting for your fishy's! When you used the coral sand to raise your PH, did you leave it in there all the time? I'm excited by the fact that I think i'm cycled, but i'm nervous about fluctuating PH or a low PH killing off the bacteria! lol

Did you say you were going for the Discus in your new build? Make sure you upload pictures if you do! I would love to see it!

 

[FishyPhil]

Oh, just quickly! I've heard bicarbonate of soda can be used to raise PH? Is this a good method?

Many thanks!

 

[librarygirl]

It can be used but I wouldn't; it can cause fluctuations if you aren't conistent in dosing.

First we should see what the natural PH of your tank should be. Take some tap water, test the PH out of the tap and then let the water sit for 24 hours, then test PH again. That will be your true PH and what your tank's PH should be. Often the PH out of the tap is higher or lower than the actual PH which can change after the tap water gasses out (for example out of the tap my PH is 8.4 but after it settles it goes down to 7.2 which is my tank's PH).

You can add something like crushed coral or crushed argonite to your filter to help buffer the water and keep the PH stable. Cycling can cause PH fluctuations so that's normal but you want it to be stable when you have fish. The DW can be causing it to drop as well. Most pet/fish stores sell crushed coral or argonite in the saltwater section; they only sell large bags though and you'll only need a few pinches. Put some in a mesh media bag or clean nylon stocking and add it to your filter, it'll help buffer the water and keep the PH stable.

Your tests look good as well. ARe you still dosing to 2 or did you go back up to 4? I'd dose to 4 for another couple of days and see what happens. If everything stays at 0 I'd say you're good for your final large water change and to add some fish. What are you planning for stock?

 

[Snowfire]

I haven't heard of using bicarbonate of soda although I guess that could work. I've always been a little dubious of adding things to my water as they will be taken out with pwcs.
It is quite possible that the wood has caused your pH to lower and if it stays that way your fish would be happier than if you were altering pH using chemicals IYSWIM.
I used the coral sand during my stressful fish in cycle. Lfs sold me a small packet for 60p and I put a few teaspoons full in an old stocking to make a little mesh bag. I put this in the filter and it acted as a buffer while everything settled down. I don't use it now and my pH is stable at 6.6/6.8.
Do you have hard or soft water? I'm not sure it would make a difference in hard water.

 

[Snowfire]

Ooh, crossed posts there!

 

[FishyPhil]

I think my area is supposed to be a hard area. Although if you fill a glass of water it often goes cloudy but then quickly goes clear again. I'm not sure if this is an indication of anything though? lol

My PH is certainly weird right now. When I added ammonia today, I retested again after a couple of hours as I wanted to make sure I was closer to 4ppm as suggested. At the same time I thought I would test the PH again, and this time it was at 7! So I thought perhaps the drop was a blip. But I have checked the PH again 4 hours later, and now it's 6! I'm thinking maybe the ammonia is raising the PH a bit, then when the nitrites start up (as they did not long after) this may be dropping it again? Maybe using up the buffers? The ammonia bacteria ate up the ammonia in just 6 hours! So that appears to be very strong. I just hope the nitrite bacteria is getting as strong!

When I put the fish in, do you both think that the PH will be less inclined to fluctuate as right now i'm dosing above what the fish would put into the water? I hope so. Otherwise I will go ahead and get the coral sand. I have also heard that cuttle bone may work? This option could be cheaper!

 

[FishyPhil]

Forgot to add... I put some tap water into a glass and tested. The PH was just above 7, perhaps 7.5. I have left it on the side so will check again tomorrow after 24 hours! Thanks again!

 

[FishyPhil]

In regards to stocking, I have changed my mind again (this has happened a lot lol)

Ok so I am now thinking the below:

6 Rummy Nose Tetra
6 Cardinal Tetra
4 Juvi Electric Blue Rams (saw them in lfs and they are beautiful!)
2 Flame Gourami
1 bristlenose

I really like the colour combination of them all, and I have read that they should be ok together. I have the Fluval 3 Internal filter, but I am going to eventually upgrade to a larger external filter so i'll have sufficient filtration for when they're all grown up.

The guy at the lfs actually told me that the rams are not a starter fish as they don't like nitrites, but I did explain to him that i've done a fishless cycle and there will be no nitrties, but he looked like he didn't know about this method! At least he was advising me against them assuming I may not have a clue!

Does anyone have experience with Blue Rams? Should I have a certain ratio of male to female?

 

[librarygirl]

I think my area is supposed to be a hard area. Although if you fill a glass of water it often goes cloudy but then quickly goes clear again. I'm not sure if this is an indication of anything though? lol

My PH is certainly weird right now. When I added ammonia today, I retested again after a couple of hours as I wanted to make sure I was closer to 4ppm as suggested. At the same time I thought I would test the PH again, and this time it was at 7! So I thought perhaps the drop was a blip. But I have checked the PH again 4 hours later, and now it's 6! I'm thinking maybe the ammonia is raising the PH a bit, then when the nitrites start up (as they did not long after) this may be dropping it again? Maybe using up the buffers? The ammonia bacteria ate up the ammonia in just 6 hours! So that appears to be very strong. I just hope the nitrite bacteria is getting as strong!

When I put the fish in, do you both think that the PH will be less inclined to fluctuate as right now i'm dosing above what the fish would put into the water? I hope so. Otherwise I will go ahead and get the coral sand. I have also heard that cuttle bone may work? This option could be cheaper!

You could try some cuttlebone. I'd put a small piece in the filter. I'd try to get the PH stable because PH drops to 6 can stall the cycle and set it back. It's common for PH to fluctuate during cycling; when it's done the PH should stay stable on its own but if you wanted to keep the small piece of cuttlebone or coral in the filter to help buffer it that's fine. I have a few pinches of CC in my filter just in case as my water is pretty soft and it keeps my PH stable between water changes; it's possible I wouldn't need it, but it isn't harming anything leaving it in. You just want to find the right amount that keeps your PH stable without causing it to jump too high.

 

[FishyPhil]

I think I may have to go with the cuttle bonoe or CC as it dropped to 6 again yesterday! I did a 50% wc and got it back to 7. I tested again just after dosing ammonia and it increased to 7.5 (btw, I did the PH test on my water after being out for 24 hours and that was about 7.5) this morning it was at 6.5. It really does seem as if the nitrite bacteria is causing the drops. Or am I missing something? I put a plant pot in the tank a few weeks ago, and a new plastic plant about a week ago. There are about 3 kilos of small stones in there, the bogwood and the couple of ornaments. I doub't any of the plants or ornaments would do anything thought, would they?

Last night I did discover a big mistake on my part when I checked the filter. On my Fluval U3 there is cermaic bio-max media in the middle section... well, it turned out that this was enclosed in a plastic bag that you're supposed to cut open and release the ceramic media! It mentioned this no where in the manual so of course I didn't do it lol. For a month it's been like this. I did cut the bag open, but as the plastic had brown bacteria in it, i left it in there for a while with the media. Of course this may be restricting some of the filter flow, so I would really like to take it out. Should I do that right away? Will it affect my results? I could try to rub off all the brown stuff into the water from the bags!

 

[Snowfire]

Sorry to hear you're still having problems with your pH, it's definitely worth trying a buffer. I found coral sand worked really well and would expect cuttlefish bone to do a similar job. Might be worth asking lfs for a small amount of coral sand, like I said, mine sells tiny bags of it for specifically for buffering so yours may do the same. This is an independent shop, not one of the big ones.
I've got my new tank set up now, it's still settling and a bit cloudy from the sand but should look good once it's all sorted! I would love to get some discus but am a bit nervous as they're £30 each for babies!! I would be a little paranoid about killing them!!
I haven't kept rams but they are beautiful! I think they can be territorial so they usually advise just one pair in a tank to prevent problems.

 

[librarygirl]

I think I may have to go with the cuttle bonoe or CC as it dropped to 6 again yesterday! I did a 50% wc and got it back to 7. I tested again just after dosing ammonia and it increased to 7.5 (btw, I did the PH test on my water after being out for 24 hours and that was about 7.5) this morning it was at 6.5. It really does seem as if the nitrite bacteria is causing the drops. Or am I missing something? I put a plant pot in the tank a few weeks ago, and a new plastic plant about a week ago. There are about 3 kilos of small stones in there, the bogwood and the couple of ornaments. I doub't any of the plants or ornaments would do anything thought, would they?

Last night I did discover a big mistake on my part when I checked the filter. On my Fluval U3 there is cermaic bio-max media in the middle section... well, it turned out that this was enclosed in a plastic bag that you're supposed to cut open and release the ceramic media! It mentioned this no where in the manual so of course I didn't do it lol. For a month it's been like this. I did cut the bag open, but as the plastic had brown bacteria in it, i left it in there for a while with the media. Of course this may be restricting some of the filter flow, so I would really like to take it out. Should I do that right away? Will it affect my results? I could try to rub off all the brown stuff into the water from the bags!

The cycle is probably causing the fluctuations; it's common. But if PH drops that much that fast you should add something to buffer it (CC or cuttlebone) or else you'll be doing daily water changes lol.

No worries about the biomax; I have the same filter and did the same thing. Just cut the bag open and remove the biomax and discard the bag; shouldn't cause any issues.

 

[FishyPhil]

Thanks for the replies guys! I took out the plastic bag last night. The ceramic media was covered in lovely brown bacteria in just 24 hours! I still can't believe I didn't notice this lol. I feel like perhaps I could be cycled even quicker!

I got a piece of cuttle bone and put it in the filter last night. This morning 8 hours after dosing ammonia, the PH was still stable at 7.5

I have dropped the temp to 27C, did a big water change and tonight I will be buying some fish!! I can't wait to see them in there!

I do have quite a lot of options in regards to lfs's in my area, however at one lfs the fish don't look the most healthy. Some of them are sitting at the bottom of the tank, a few have dead fish in them which havent been taken out. But their prices are cheaper than some other places. For example, they sell pairs of flame gourami for £4.99 (about $7?) They seem to be swimming around ok, and I can't see any signs of ich. Should I avoid these, travel further and get them from a different lfs that has crystal clear tanks and the fish seem much happer? I'll be paying double the price, but It might cause me less problems down the line. Although I would love to rescue them from their tanks!

What are you thoughts about getting fish from places like that? Are there things to look out for, or steps to take to help them? I know I could quarantine them, but unfortunately I don't have a tank set up for that.

 

[Snowfire]

I expect you've probably been to the shop by now do are hopefully watching your new fishy pals getting used to their new home
My closest lfs sounds a lot like yours, I remember once seeing a little albino cory being attacked by some large tetras which really upset my daughter. I told the staff who just shrugged it off saying they would move him later!! I don't buy from shops who don't care about or understand their fish, I think you're more likely to have problems with diseased and damaged fish.
I was thinking about the rams you were talking about getting, they would live your flower pot!

 

[whiplash]

My ammonia down to 1 again, nitrites off the chart, nitrates high about 80, dosed it back up to 4ppm on ammonia. Is the cycle close to being done? 55 gallon about 2 and half weeks into fishless cycle. I used old filter from friends tank and i think this helped speed up process? hw long till nitrites disappear for good?

 

[librarygirl]

My ammonia down to 1 again, nitrites off the chart, nitrates high about 80, dosed it back up to 4ppm on ammonia. Is the cycle close to being done? 55 gallon about 2 and half weeks into fishless cycle. I used old filter from friends tank and i think this helped speed up process? hw long till nitrites disappear for good?

It seems to have sped things up; nitrites typically don't show up for a few weeks so you have them early. The nitrite phase is the longest of the phases and can last 3 weeks on average but hopefully yours will be less. Typically ammonia drops to 0 in 24 hours before nitrites show up though so you're lagging a bit there but that's ok, still doing good for 2.5 weeks in. Keep an eye on your PH too, just to make sure it doesn't crash which can stall the cycle.

 

[whiplash]

test results from today Ammonia 0, nitrites high, nitrates high, ph7.6 hopefully im almost done