Am I on the right track? A history of my tank....

[EnyaGirl]

Hello all-

I would like to give you a brief history of the tank that I am taking care of, and ask suggestions/opinions about my current tank situation.

I inherited a 55-gallon f/w tank when I took my new job here back in July. The girl that I replaced had previously taken care of it, and I knew *nothing* about fish, and didn't think taking care of an aquarium was all that involved. About a month after being here, the tank sprang a leak. I had to completely drain and re-seal the tank. (I put the fish temporarily in a large tupperware storage container with some of their tank water in the meantime.) When I re-filled the tank, this is when the problems began....

For informational purposes, I am not down to: 4 mollys, a rainbow shark, a red tail shark (I *think*, at least from what I saw in a book), a chinese algae eater, and 2 fish I am unable to identify (look like part shark, part catfish?). I have a Fluval 204 cannister filter, which I have come to find out is supposed to support only up to 40 gallons, but this is what I have to work with here.... I have a heater (I keep it between 72-76 degrees), two water pumps (lots of aeration, including air stones), a light layer of gravel (I originally had more, but removed some because I was afraid too much waste was getting caught in it).

Ok, so my problems began when I re-filled the tank. I knew NOTHING about the nitrogen cycle or about biological filtration. I was doing 10-20 percent water changes weekly (using a tap water conditioner), cleaning the gravel, and completely washing out the filter sponges, and replacing the loose carbon in the filter. I was losing fish (I originally had about 5 more or so in the tank, including a pleco who died recently ). I went to the pet store and brought a water sample, and they informed me that the ammonia was dangerously high. In order to combat this, I started adding Ammo-Lock to the tank. This didn't help. I continued to do the water changes, and two times I have walked in to find my chinese algae eater near death on the tank floor, and my rainbow shark near the surface trying to get air, with what looked like Ich on him. I treated the tank with Super Ich Cure and did partial water changes both times, and both fish came back to life, but it was obvious that I was being told by this pet store was not correct, so I started researching on my own, and finally learned about the Nitrogen cycle. I also invested in a water testing kit, and I would like to outline what I have done since becoming informed, and the results of that, and find out if I am finally on the right track, or what I should do in addition to lower these levels (or if patience is all I need right now). It was Nov. 29th when I learned all of this, so consider Nov. 29th the "starting point" for what I am trying to do, which is successfully cycle the tank.

11/29: Added the following to the cannister filter: Carbon in the bottom canister, ammonia remover in the middle one, and Bio-Max in the top one (there are also the 2 sponges in this filter). Added a heavy dose of Cycle (according to the bottle for "new tank setup"), did a 10% water change, cleaned gravel.

12/8: Water test results: Ph: 6.6, Ammonia: 8 (highest level on card), Nitrite: 5 (highest level on card), Nitrate: 20. Did another 10% water change (tap water treated with Prime), added another double dose of Cycle, did not even touch the filter at all.

12/15: Added another double dose of Cycle. Did not do a water change this week, because of fear of losing any established biofilter by doing so..

12:16 (today): Water test results: Did not test Ph...Ammonia: 4 (a slight improvement), Nitrite: 5 (still highest level on card), Nitrate: 80 (second to highest level on card).

I am feeding sparsely......So my question is this: Am I on the right track (I was hoping for more of an improvement from last week, but since I only added the Bio-Max on 11/29 to get the bio-filter going, I guess it needs more time?) Should I do a partial water change this week, or is it a good idea not to? I didn't plan on touching the filter until the end of December, and at that point I was going to squeeze out the sponges in a bucket of tank water instead of rinsing them with tap water, replace the Ammo-Rid, replace the Carbon, and not touch the Bio-Max. How long until I get these numbers under control, and is there anything else I could be doing that I'm not already doing to help that? Thank you for taking the time to read and for any suggestions you might have.

 

[Jnam]

You may have addressed this, but please do not clean your filter pads. If you reading a level of amonia higher the .25PPM please do at least a 50% water change I would suggest more but i know that can be a pain in a 55 gallon tank. Amonia and Nitrite that high definately means that your cycle is messed up. The good bacteria or BB lives mostly in your gravel and filter. If you removed to much gravel and also cleaned your filter pads this is why you are seeing another cycle your tank does not have enough BB to consume all your amonia. So again the only way to bring that down is frequent large water changes. This will help you fish the most. Carbon is mostly a polishing agent for water meaning it makes it look pretty. It has to be replaced frequently for you to see any benefit. Amolok will still force your water to show a high amonia reading it only converts the amonia to another chemical type that is less harmfull for fish... Same thing with the Ammo-Rid in your filter. I would do dail water changes 50% for 3 days and when your Ammonia reading gets under control i would continye with 10-20% for the next week or so until you see both 0 amonia and 0 nitirites... HTH

*edit*
what type of test kit are you using? is it a liquid regent?

*second edit*
Carbon is designed to remove chemicals from your water, when adding cycle it will have that effect on the cycle product. I would remove the carbon JMO

 

[EnyaGirl]

Oh my goodness.....50% water changes? This is completely opposite of what I would think.....wouldn't that destroy any BB that I was currently growing? Wouldn't it start the cycle all over again? Doesn't the cycle take more than 2 weeks? I'm interested to read other replies.....

I have not washed the filter "pads" (i have sponges, if that is what you mean) or even opened the filter since Nov. 29th. I will remove the carbon.....I don't understand how changing out that much of the water would bring the ammonia under control....I've done large water changes like that before, and it had NO affect on the ammonia reading. I'm using a liquid testing kit from API.

 

[Jnam]

The BB attatches itself to surfaces IE your filter sponges and gravel thats why you started your cycel over again. The water it self contains little to no bacteria. So changing the water only helps to get rid of the amonia quicker because the nitrites and amonia are both suspended in the water. The PWC's had no effect because it wasnt a large enough volume of water changed. And to bring down Amonia levels from 8ppm to 0.25ppm would requre lots of water changes.

Water changes are a must and will not effect the bacteria in your tank. But this is only my opinion, i am sure though that others will share that opinion.

And even if large waterchanges would harm your bacteria colony the most important part is that you save your fish and water changes WILL lower the PPM of anything suspended in your water column.

Yes the cycle does take more than two weeks but your tank is "semi established" so creating more bacteria from what you allready have should lessen the time it takes to cycle your tank...


Read weeks 3-4 and 5-6 because thats kinda where you are in a FISH IN THE WATER CYLCE
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/fishless-cycling-for-dummies-103339.html
HTH

Oh and this article is also helpful
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articles/articles/24/1/Nitrogen-Cycle-/Page1.html

 

[EnyaGirl]

Ok, so you're saying if I do a 50% water change (is treating the tap water with Prime good?), I will *not* be messing with the cycle, and I should notice an instant drop in the ammonia and nitrite reading? (I'm sorry for sounding like a dope, but this whole "cycle" thing is new to me and I'm trying my best to understand it). Thanks for the link.

 

[Jnam]

Yup 50% at least daily to control your amonia and reading about 2ppm is very hard on your fish. Keep that up until you get consistant reading of less then .5ppm test your nitrites at the same time you want to see as close to 0 on that as possible, your nitrates are ok at anything less than 20ppm. If you have to go up to 80% water changes until you get that amonia under control. Prime is awesome but it mostly removes chlorine and chloramine but will be good for your tank... Its a pain in know I too have a 55 gallon tank and those large volume water changes are killer. Try investing in a Python Grave vac or something simmilar which will let you put water from the tank directly in the sink and vicaversa without buckets.

Yeah I made the same mistakes, i got this sweet new tank and put in the gravel and the plants and the ornaments put in the water and then a bunch of fish. Couple weeks later most of the fish were dying or dead. I cleaned everything with bleach water and started over same result. Then after doing a little research on AA i found i was going about it all wrong.

You will get this figured out and once you do you can actually enjoy your tank. PS do you have any live plants in that tank?

the drop may not be instant on your amonia or nitrite levels if you are reading the max amount on your cards your actual levels could be WAY higher than that. But after a few PWC you will definately notice a difference.

 

[EnyaGirl]

I do not have live plants in the tank, no. I did have one, but I removed it....I thought it could have something to do with the ammonia reading (I didn't know what I was doing), so I took it out. Is it beneficial to have one?

Also, if I am doing 50% water changes once a day, how can I be sure that the bacteria that's accumulated in the filter sponges and in the Bio-Max since Nov. 29th is *enough* beneficial bacteria for the fish? If there isn't enough in there, couldn't that drastic of a water change be a shock to the fish that would then kill them? As you mentioned, you had an empty tank, filled it with fish, and they all died within a couple weeks. Wouldn't I in essence, be doing the same thing in replacing almost all of the water they're in now so aggressively if the biofilter isn't sufficient yet? I'm understanding your points about it being necessary for removing the ammonia and nitrites...Is this a case of that being more important than the risk of losing them to a bare tank? Thank you for your patience and all of your help......

Oh, and with such a drastic water change, should I be adding stress coat to the tank? And what about the Cycle? Continue to add that? Thanks!

 

[Jnam]

You wont be making drastic changes to the water. My weekly maintenance on my planted 55 gallon includes a 50% water change once a week. This is actually better for you fish then not doing water changes they will acutally enjoy it. Remember most of these fish come from natural water systems where 100% of their water is replaced by new water every few hours. You will know when you have enough bacteria by your readings. Once you get the amonia to safe level of less than .5PPM when you test you are hoping to see 0ppm of amonian and nitirites first amonia will bottom out and then nitrites thats when you have sufficient amount of bacteria... or your cycle is complete.

What killed my fish was i didnt do any water changes after i initialy put the fish in and i didnt give my tank sufficient time before adding fish to cylce and establish a good bio filter of bacteria. as long as you arent cleaning your substrate heavily or your filter media you will not be removing any bacteria. You will only be removing the chemicals that will kill your fish. Amonia and Nitrites.

Cycle in my opinion is not as helpful as it claims. Stess coat is another well intended but somewhat useless additive again that is my opinion only. Adding these will not hurt what you are doing, nor do I think it will help. Do continue to use prime with every water change and treat the entire tanks work of water so when you dose Prime dose it for a full 55 gallons. there are 3 things that will destroy your beneficial bacteria colony. Lack of oxygen, removing the bacteria manually (taking out gravel or cleaning filter media), and chlorine/chloramine. So please continue to use prime.


All i can say is this. Water changes will not harm your fish nor will they disrupt your cycle. Water changes are great for your Aquarium. Water changes are the only way to instantly remove chemicals suspended in the water and get those chemicals down to a safe level. Water changes are your friend ESPECIALLY when cycling a tank with fish in it. Always use a dechlorinator when adding tap water and always treat that water for the whole tank.

Maybe someone else will chime in on this.

 

[EnyaGirl]

Thank you. I'll repeat it to myself..."water changes are my friend.....water changes are my friend...." I appreciate your time.... Another question..... if you don't believe stress coat helps (and I have heard that elsewhere as well), do you think I should add salt? I'm concerned because my rainbow shark has had either Ich or a fungus (I'm not sure which to tell you the truth, but it went away after treating with super ich cure so I assume that's what it was), but both times he contracted this was after I had done rather large water changes (granted, this is back when I was also practically scrubbing out the filter weekly because I didn't know any better). Does the salt add a slime coat that will protect them if stressed, and is it something I should add regularly? Why don't you believe Cycle is helpful? Thanks

 

[Jnam]

Salt would be fine but I dont personally use it. Ich is best treated with heat IMO. Stess is what will bring about ICH, and your fish are very stressed with the ammonia the way it is. Super ICH cure is a formailin/malachite green blend as with any chemical treatments follow the directions. Ich has stages in its life cycle and if you dont do the entire treatment the ich will show back up... It will appear to be gone but has just changed from the cyst form on your fish to a free swimming form.

As for the salt it does stimulate the slime coat and can be used as a water conditioner I would first get your cycle under control before introducing anything else.

Cycle, well beneficial bacteria are easy to kill anything (with the exception of a few products like biospira) that claims to contain it would have to be refiriderated and have a very short shelf life. Cycle claims to have a concentrated amount of beneficial bacteria but most if not all of that bacteria is dead therefore it doesnt really help your aquarium. Some aquarists will say that it works great for them, thats why I said persnoally it wont hurt or help your situation... One of The best way to seed your tank is to get a handfull of gravel from a cycled tank and place it in an unwashed knee high tie off the top and place it next to your filter pads(sponges). Or directly in your tank ontop of your gravel. The other option is to borrow a filter pad from someone and do the same thing.

If you are worried about ich and it doesnt seem to go away this is the heat method i use:
Over a several hour period slowly raise the tank temp to 86F once there leave it for two weeks continue your water changes but always try to match the temp of the new water to your tanks. You will see the cysts on your fish, when in this stage the ICH cannot be killed. Once the cysts mature and fall off the ICH is in a form that is egg like and again is in a stage that cannot be killed. After the egg stage it becomes free swimming this is where you get to kill the nasty bug. At temps above 84F the ICH swimmers cannot survive long enough to reinfect your fish. this whole life cycle at a normal temp say 74-80F takes about a month by increasing the temp it speeds up the life cycle of the ICH putting it at about two weeks. One week after all signs of ich are gone (thats after the initial two week treatment period) you can put the tank back to its normal operating temperature. This is how I have succesfully treated ICH.

Describe the ailment of your shark to me. Do you see tiny salt looking specs on your fish or do the look more like puffed rice? or even like a milky coating.

Unfortunetly treating for a fungus can kill off your bio filter bacteria so hopefully thats not the case....3

All of these treatments, Formalin/malachite green, salt, heat require you aerate your tank all the time because each limit the amount of available O2 and remember from your reading all the good bacteria you are trying to breed are aerobic meaning they need O2 to survive so with any treatment aeration is key (oh and PWCs remember they are your freind!) =)

 

[Jnam]

Sorry double post

Salt: Only add it once, salt will not evaporate from your tank. So the only time to add it regularly would be durring PWC when YOU removed the water from the tank. Like i said though i dont use salt. And I'm not really recomending that you do or dont use it. And follow the directions and only use salt for fresh water aquariums its usualy sold as "Aquarium Salt" dont use salt for salt water tanks... Some scaleless fish "loaches and some cats" dont like high concentrations of salt.

 

[EnyaGirl]

The stuff on my shark....it looked like he was being weighed down with something...stuff was coming off of him, like clear, almost like plastic-y stuff. It's really hard to describe. Looked like a layer of slimey stuff that was just constantly coming off of him....he would shed this stuff that would then float to the surface and look like long pieces of....plastic is the only way I can describe it. I don't recall if there were spots, as I was so distracted by the stuff he was shedding. He is the only fish that this affected, and this happened twice.

 

[Jnam]

That sounds like a fungus. The treatments on that vary and it could be bacterial as well Water changes will help him out a lot along with lowering the stess of the ammonia and nitrites.

 

[missileman]

Cycle does work but not nearly as well as Bio-Spira (Marineland has formulated a NEW Bio-Spira that does not require refrigeration BTW) Cycle has dormant bacteria that takes longer to work, I think it is probably mostly spores.
High levels of any of the 3 readings will stall the cycle.
Do daily water changes until you get the amonia and Nitrite to 1ppm or lower and Nitrate below 40ppm.
Since you are reading all 3 your cycle should be near finished and you should be getting good readings within a few days.

 

[EnyaGirl]

Good news to report!!

I just wanted to come back and post my latest test results:


Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: .25 ppm
Nitrate: 40 ppm

If you'll recall, on Tuesday I was at:

Ammonia: 4ppm
Nitrite: 5ppm
Nitrate: 40 ppm

I did a 25% water change both days, and that seems to have taken care of it. I'm really relieved to know that my fish can breath easier now. Are my current numbers ok? Thanks!

 

[missileman]

Your Nitrite and Nitrate are still high. Keep doing the 25% water changes. It should only take a couple of more days. You should be good by the end of the weekend at the rate you are going.
Your aim when finished will be
0 amonia
0 nitrite
about 10ppm or less nitrate on average.
Nitrate is the only one that will not clear on its own. small weekly water changes will keep it in check.

 

[EnyaGirl]

Your Nitrite and Nitrate are still high. Keep doing the 25% water changes. It should only take a couple of more days. You should be good by the end of the weekend at the rate you are going.
Your aim when finished will be
0 amonia
0 nitrite
about 10ppm or less nitrate on average.
Nitrate is the only one that will not clear on its own. small weekly water changes will keep it in check.

Ok...my other concern was, I tested the Ph of my tap water and of the tank. The tap is 7.2, and the tank is 6. I don't know anything about what it *should* be, but do I need to add something to either the tap or the tank to make them more closely match? What is ideal for ph?

 

[Jnam]

ideal ph is hard to reach. I would strive for consistant PH if the PH of your water is 6 then leave it alone as long as it stays consistant. Do you have any drift wood in your tank?

Congrats on the numbers comming down thats good to hear. I agree with missleman get tthos first two down to 0 and life will be great for your fish.

 

[EnyaGirl]

ideal ph is hard to reach. I would strive for consistant PH if the PH of your water is 6 then leave it alone as long as it stays consistant. Do you have any drift wood in your tank?

Congrats on the numbers comming down thats good to hear. I agree with missleman get tthos first two down to 0 and life will be great for your fish.

Just updating...my ammonia AND nitrites are at 0 now...Yipee! Nitrates are still a bit high, but I assume they will be taken care of with PWC's. Thanks again....really appreciate the help

 

[Jnam]

PWC PWC PWC lol. Anyways you are correct and congrats. I hope you can enjoy your tank now!