Ammonia not dropping

[Azure Lord]

Day 20- ammonia has not dropped one bit since i started it. I know i didnt use any seeding media...but what gives?

Any ideas?

 

[dalto]

It can take a long time. If it is unseeded. What is your ammonia at now?

 

[Azure Lord]

5ppm.....same its been from the start

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[Tank Girl]

When ammonia (or nitrites) are too high, it can interfere with a cycle. It doesn't need to be that high. Are you adding ammonia everyday?


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[Azure Lord]

No i added it up to 5 like the online guide i found said...and its been there ever since. Nothing added

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[Andy Sager]

In a natural setup, I've seen it take up to 2- 3 months or longer for a tank to fully cycle. There are many variables, i.e. temperature, ammonia source, PH, oxygen level, all these effect how fast nitrifying bacteria grow. In lower PH water ( under 7.0) nitrifying bacteria grow extremely slow so if possible, raise the PH to above 7.0 and even as high as 8.0. Temp: if yours is under 78-80 degrees, you may want to warm your tank to this or a little higher even to help speed up bacteria production. O2, make sure you have good bubbling going on somewhere in the system.
Try these and see if that helps. If all else fails, some material from an established tank should kick start the process a bit faster.

Hope this helps

 

[Andy Sager]

When ammonia (or nitrites) are too high, it can interfere with a cycle. It doesn't need to be that high. Are you adding ammonia everyday?

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I've not known that to be true. Can I ask where you got this information as it doesn't sound right to me?

 

[Tank Girl]

From Dr. Tim's article on fishless cycling:

"The high ammonia or nitrite concentration (which by the way can sometimes occur in the shrimp method) is a problem because high levels of ammonia or nitrite inhibit the nitrifying bacteria. You need to change the water to reduce the ammonia and nitrite to get the cycle going again."




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[1998golfer]

In a natural setup, I've seen it take up to 2- 3 months or longer for a tank to fully cycle. There are many variables, i.e. temperature, ammonia source, PH, oxygen level, all these effect how fast nitrifying bacteria grow. In lower PH water ( under 7.0) nitrifying bacteria grow extremely slow so if possible, raise the PH to above 7.0 and even as high as 8.0. Temp: if yours is under 78-80 degrees, you may want to warm your tank to this or a little higher even to help speed up bacteria production. O2, make sure you have good bubbling going on somewhere in the system.
Try these and see if that helps. If all else fails, some material from an established tank should kick start the process a bit faster.

Hope this helps

Hmm. For some reason my cycle completed in around 2 weeks with a ph of around 6.0 Maybe I was just an odd ball. Anyway, I'm sure your words are based on the experiences of your whole life in fish keeping.

I've not known that to be true. Can I ask where you got this information as it doesn't sound right to me?

I've been hearing that information too, but I've yet to find any proof. I used 4ppm in my tank (Ace hardware janitorial strength ammonia) and it worked just fine.

ps: I never had any nitrites in my cycle. only saw ammo as it went down and nitrate as it came up (same time as ammo went down).. Hmm

 

[Andy Sager]

From Dr. Tim's article on fishless cycling:

"The high ammonia or nitrite concentration (which by the way can sometimes occur in the shrimp method) is a problem because high levels of ammonia or nitrite inhibit the nitrifying bacteria. You need to change the water to reduce the ammonia and nitrite to get the cycle going again."

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I wish this came from a more scientific approach then a company trying to sell a product. What I've been reading lately has been more about the cycle being stalled with an end result of higher ammonia levels but this is due to a lack of area for enough bacteria to grow on to convert the ammonia that's present. So the ammonia didn't cause the stall, lack of bacteria caused the stall.
Here's an article from Duke University that might better explain cycling ( https://www.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/cycling.html ) as well as this from a fellow AAer: Nitrifying Bacteria Facts
Obviously, this last article is from the makers ( I believe) of Fritzyme so it may be scewed as to it's effectiveness but Fritz has been around for a long time and one of the earlier products to "instantly" cycle an aquarium. I started using it back in the late 1970s so it's a tried and true product. And don;t get me wrong, I'm not saying that Dr. Tims is a bad product as I have never seen or used it but what i know of cycling aquariums comes from way before any of these products existed. Ammonia is consumed by bacteria, the more ammonia present, the more bacteria is created (when enough surface area is supplied.) I just can't see how too much ammonia will cause a problem in a fishless cycle unless it's in a bare tank or one with limited surface area, which goes back to the set up not being adequate not the ammonia level being too high. Hopefully, these 2 articles will be more specific for you. ( I tend to blabber. )

Thanks for your reply

 

[dalto]

Very high ammonia levels can inhibit cycling of a tank but 4ppm is not considered very high.

My understanding is that very low pH can impede the cycle but I though that was in the <5 range.

 

[Andy Sager]

Hmm. For some reason my cycle completed in around 2 weeks with a ph of around 6.0 Maybe I was just an odd ball. Anyway, I'm sure your words are based on the experiences of your whole life in fish keeping.


I've been hearing that information too, but I've yet to find any proof. I used 4ppm in my tank (Ace hardware janitorial strength ammonia) and it worked just fine.

ps: I never had any nitrites in my cycle. only saw ammo as it went down and nitrate as it came up (same time as ammo went down).. Hmm

The article by Fritz ( in the previous post) may help explain this. At that low of a PH, there were no nitrosomas to convert the ammonium to nitrites. I say ammonium not ammonia because in lower then 7.0 water, ammonia (NH3) is converted to Ammonium ( NH4 ) which is much less toxic to the fish and not much of a concern. I can only surmise that the nitrates you saw either came from the water you used or possibly live plants you may have used? ( Need a lot more info to know for sure, This is just a guess on my part. ) The reduction of the ammonia had to come from some form of filtration you were using(possibly a carbon/ ammonia removing combination product maybe? ) It's just a guess at this point. But the low PH explains a number of things ( at least to me )
The nitrogen cycle is an amazing thing to study. It's effected by so many different things that you can't always pin down a result without a lot of digging. But the answer is there....somewhere...

Hope the is helps

 

[1998golfer]

The article by Fritz ( in the previous post) may help explain this. At that low of a PH, there were no nitrosomas to convert the ammonium to nitrites. I say ammonium not ammonia because in lower then 7.0 water, ammonia (NH3) is converted to Ammonium ( NH4 ) which is much less toxic to the fish and not much of a concern. I can only surmise that the nitrates you saw either came from the water you used or possibly live plants you may have used? ( Need a lot more info to know for sure, This is just a guess on my part. ) The reduction of the ammonia had to come from some form of filtration you were using(possibly a carbon/ ammonia removing combination product maybe? ) It's just a guess at this point. But the low PH explains a number of things ( at least to me )
The nitrogen cycle is an amazing thing to study. It's effected by so many different things that you can't always pin down a result without a lot of digging. But the answer is there....somewhere...

Hope the is helps

No plants, and tap water tests 0/0/0. No carbon, just filter pads and bio media. I'll look into it some more, interesting article.

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