Aquarium driving me NUTS!!!!!!!!HELP!!!!

[ADCISCO]

The later part of June my brother in law decided that he was going to buy my 7 year old an aquarium. Started off somewhat ok...then the fish started dying....I know now that it was just not cycled and that there were a few things done that were wrong. About 3 wks ago we finally got it lined out and everything was perfect!!!! No ammonia,nitrates or nitrites and PH was perfect. We went on vacation for 4 days....I dropped a feeder block in.....(didnt know at the time that was a bad thing to do) Came home to my tank and my female red velvet sword had cloudy eyes....I rushed and got meds....medicated for 7 days like they said...took the carbon our.....after seven days did a 20% water change.....The poor fish is somewhat better but I think that she is now blind...but anyway that is the least of my problems. The nitates are 1.0.They stay right there. CANNOT to save my life get them to go down. Have done partial water changes....then the nitrate goes up to 140 along with the nitrite back to 1.0....do another 20% changed nitrates go back down. Next day backup just as high as before. Did another 20% same thing again.Help!!!!!!! At this point I dont think that I am ever gonna be able to get anymore fish!!!! I have added stress coat after water changes like they have told me too and also added salt to help ease some stress....could this we the problem.....I am a despite woman LOL I need to know if there is anything I can get to get them down or do I just leave it alone and let things just go. P.S. I also have used a product called Amquel Plus to remove Ammonia, Nitrates and Nitrites.....I put it in and it seemed to help the nitrate but not the nitrite....I am a desprite waman!!!!

 

[Techboy]

try using a product called kent ammonia detox it works with my nitrate levels. see if that works if not send me a email at Mendozans@msn.com

 

[Allivymar]

Coupla thoughts:

A thing to consider is medication usually kills the bacterial colonies; your tank appears to be mini cycling as the bacterial colonies work their way back up to normal levels. Salt is the treatment for nitrite poisoning, so that little bit of salt in the tank is most likely helping to keep your guys from nitrite poisoning.

There hasn't been any chemical I've found which truly reduces nitrites. You may want to see if a lfs carried Bio-Spira. Its the correct nitrifying bacteria in a bag (the ONLY product with the correct stuff). Its NOT made to play catch up, rather to work with rising levels of ammonia and nitrites when starting a tank, but it may help kick those nitrites back to where they need to be by boosting your nitrifying bacterial levels.

Water changes, just as you are doing, are really the best thing to do tho. I would suggest testing your tap water just to see if there are any nitrites/nitrates in it. It does happen from time to time and obviously affects tank water parameters. If that winds up being the issue, a call to the water company and a couple bottles of store bought water may be in order for a little while.

 

[SixFootDaisy]

Next time you leave for a few days, DO NOT use those vacation feeders!! They screw up the water.



The fish can go a few days without eating, as they would in their natural habitat.

Keep doing water changes.

 

[jsoong]

ADCISCO,
I am responding to this post plus the note you left on my Amquel question.

It sounds like you are in the same situation I am in now - cycling a new tank. I think Allivymar is right in that the med killed your good bacteria so you are back to square one.

From your other post - 4 20% water change isn't much to bring any level down. After you do a 20% WC, you still have 80% of the stuff left. The next WC, you are removing 80% of the 80%, so you have 64% left ... etc.

To make a long story short, it will take about 12 (yes, twelve!) 20% water changes to bring a level down to 10% of original, and 16 changes to bring it down to 1%.

You see what I am getting at .. Unless you get rid of the med (I read in another newsgroup that you should use a *new* carbon filter), you likly still have some of the original med left in your tank, killing any bacteria trying to establish itself. Small water changes by themselves are not enough.

Same reasoning goes for the nitrite levels. It will take many more water changes to bring an elevated level down - and since the fish are producing the stuff all the time, small water changes may just be enough to keep the NO2 level from rising, but not to bring it down.

I myself had to learn this the hard way! In my ignorance I let the NO2 rise to over 3. (I knew that ammonia is bad, but NO2 is not so bad, so when I see my ammonia going down to zero, I relaxed .... ) It had taken me a whole week of 30 - 40 % water changes to bring the level down to 1. I am now keeping my fingers crossed (and a closer eye on the NO2) until the tank finishes cycling ( I read this can take up to a month! .... patience .... )

So my suggestion is: more & larger water changes, and hope your tank cycle soon.

Good Luck!

 

[ADCISCO]

Well I dont know what to do at this point! Water is crystal clear.....ammonia....zip! PH 7.0.nitrates .20,nitites at 1.0 or a little higher.....So all I have done is add some salt......I'm trying to stick it out to see if it will go down on its own.Gonna wait till tomorrow and see how things read.....if anything goes up....I will do another 20% change.I am not a patient person....this is so hard!lol I WANT NEW FISH!!! The waiting is so hard! I need to get some new buddies!

 

[Allivymar]

*giggles*

Patience is not the virtue of most fish addicts. Heh, I always have a QT up n running in case I find another fish to "fall in love with". LOL

Crystal clear water doesn't mean much; do keep that in mind. All it shows is there is no particulates in the water. As you can tell, it doesn't mean there aren't deadly chemicals in it (just think of your tap water and the chlorine/chloramine usually added by the water supply co.). Keep a very close eye on your parameters. You really don't want any ammonia or nitrites in the water; your ammonia levels are obviously right on track now, but keep a VERY close eye on those nitrites. If they spike your fish could be in big trouble.

Also keep in mind adding fish will most likely cause a mini-cycle unless you add very few (maybe one or 2 at a time). More fish = more nitrogenous waste = bacterial colonies need a little time to grow enough to handle the new bio-load. Doesn't take long, but its a good idea to space out additions.

Lastly, if you haven't done this yet, I HIGHLY recommend using a QT tank for new fish. You never know what a fish may be bringing in from the lfs, even if they look healthy when you get them. It will save you from having to medicate the main tank AGAIN, and possibly dealing with these probs a second time, if you give new guys 2 weeks or so in QT to observe and medicate in there if necessary.

 

[ADCISCO]

Ok.....I did another 20% change this afternoon......waited a little while and checked the nitrites......still high!!!! So I took a sample of the water to the pet store to have them check for everything......by their tests (liquid) I use dry tabs...everything was high.How can that be when were perfect? I am sooooooo confused!!!! I have been told to use stress zyme and then told not to use it that it can cause more problems than it is worth.....so many stories....so little time....and to make a long story short....I just bought a 10 gallon quarantine tank...gotta great deal on it $8.88. Now I am afraid to start to put anything in the water!lol They told me not to take water from the original tank and put it in the quarantine. Somebody knock me in the head....fish overload on my brain here!lol So do it put stress coat and stress zyme both in the tank when starting out or what??? What is the best way for the qtank?

 

[Allivymar]

Nice deal on the QT tank! Even better then my 10g (cost me $10).

You might want to wait until your main tank is re-cycled. Pick up some of the vial type tests as well; they seem to be most accurate (I've used the dipstick and vial; have never used the tabs). You might want to throw and extra filter sponge/pad in the main tank as well. The bacteria will colonise it too, and you can then put it into the QT tank for an instant cycle it (or, pick up some Bio-Spira and add it to the QT tank when you get fish).

You'll need a heater and a filter for the QT. Don't need substrate; its only a temp home. I do put some plastic plants and a ceramic cave in there for fish who need a hiding space (like clown loaches). You CAN do a QT without cycling it; requires lots of water changes tho to remove the ammonia/nitrites.

I don't use StressZyme; its pointless. Wrong bacteria. I also don't use StressCoat; the aloe vera in it is useless and does nothing for the fish. In fact, I don't use anything which "enhances slime coat". If a fish is healthy it doesn't need it, and if it DOES need help with increasing its slime coat, the cause would require something a lot stronger then Stress Coat. I *think* all slime coat enhancers do is irritate the fish a little so it produces more slime coat...seems silly to me. I do use a dechlorinator/dechloraminator (I think I made that last word up LOL), but the stuff I use ONLY does that and nothing else.

 

[ADCISCO]

Well I have it set up....I had a filter from the other aquarium....we went to a bigger one on it....the one was just too small. Got a heater when I got the quarantine tank....$9...got some new gravel, a few plastic plants ...have it pretty much ready other than filling it with water and plugging it in...and of course....fish! I saw some dwarf angel fish....I almost bought one...but I refrained.....so many fish....just not enough tank....yet! They guy at the pet store thinks that that stress zyme and coat are the best thing since apple butter. Gave me a ton of samples. When I get new fish and put them in the qtank should I go ahead and treat them just in case they have something or should I just wait and watch? I got something called Melafix back when one of my fish got sick a few weeks ago....Seems to work pretty well. Its all natural.They say that you can use it for 3 days after you get new fish to make sure that they dont get the other fish sick...of course you have to take the carbon out. But didnt know if that was a good idea or not. I bought 2 new books off line and neither one had in it what I wanted after I got them. I had gotten a book from the library that had pics of most tropical fish and what was their compatibility....best book I have seen so far.....found it used online for 98 cents!lol NEW! Just an overstock. I want to know what I can put with what without having fin nippers and such! Most books arent that clear this one is really good...or at least I think for a newbie that I am It has helped me alot to try and decide what to put in a community tank anyway!

 

[Allivymar]

Awesome Sounds like you have all you need for a QT tank. I'd keep an eye on the gravel; you may decide you don't need it since its a temp set up (and its a pain to keep clean when you only need it for 2-3 weeks).

Do keep in mind Stresszyme and all that other crap IS the pet stores bread n apple butter *grin* they don't make a lot of money off the fish; its the stuff that accompanies the fish that brings in the cash.

Don't treat unless you have to. No reason to subject the fish to unneccessary meds. Even Melafix (although the stuff is awesome; I use it when my angelfish decide to beat on each other. Does an amazing job helping them heal their fins). Actually, Melafix has been the ONLY med I've ever used; even when my guys had ich I didn't use meds. I used high temps and salt (my guys can take that) and my tank is now ich free. The other thing about not treating them initially, is you don't know what to use. IF a fish shows signs of illness, then you do the research and determine best course of treatment. Otherwise unneccessary and frankly, a waste of money as well.

Oh and dwarf angelfish? No such thing. Its possible its a mutant or did not recieve proper nutrition initially and that affected its growth. Either way, go for the regular angels; you stand a better chance of getting a healthy fish. Being an angelfish addict myself LOL I suggest you look at maybe doing an angel tank in the future. I've a 55g with 5 angels of varied sizes, 3 clown loaches and a big fat pleco. It sits right behind the couch, and I just turn around and watch those graceful beasts whenever I want. Well, graceful when they aren't fighting over food or chasing each other around LOL

Throwing a coupla kudos your way for being so diligent about researching before buying I'm impressed.

 

[ADCISCO]

They may have been miniature angels.....LOL I just know that they were soooooo pretty and they were very petite.....about the size of a nickle. I have really gotten into the fish thing.....I even worry about my fish. I read constantly so that I can make the right decision the first time.....but in the beginning I didnt get to because I was out of town at the time of the purchase of the tank and fish....I would have researched it first and found out what the correct thing would have been to do.MEN!!!! And they say we are bad about stuff! I dont want to spend money over and over on fish if I dont have too. We killed a bunch in the beginning.....4 tetras,3 neons, a sucker, swordtail and 2 corys..oh and then there was...I'm not sure what its name was but it just looked like a while goldfish with colored spots...it got the ich....I had him up and moving and his spots where going away and on the 3rd day of treatment I went to put the ich meds in and he was such a BIG PIG that he snuck up to the back of the tank and just when I dropped the meds in he swollowed it!!!!!!!! He was dead in an hr.....My daughter was devistated! Her favorite fish......But I guess that was what he got for being greedy!lol