aquarium newby will my tank ever cycle? HELP

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fishfoe

Aquarium Advice Newbie
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
6
GREETINGS FRIENDS OF FISH
I NEED HELP! I SET UP MY fresh water AQUARIUM DOING ALL THE WRONG THINGS FIRSt trying to cycle the tank w/fish and too many. i will give you a little background on my present situation and then maybe some words of advice will get me pointed in the right direction. i have a 20 gallon long tank. temp is 84 f . i have some fake plants and just yesterday bought some real plants a purple sword thing and acouple bunches of long bushy green things that begin w/ an A. i am 16 days into starting up my tank and it still hasnt cycled. i have put in the cycle chemical however my water is still milky and not clear. my ph is 6.2 alkalinity 0. hardness approx 300 nitrites close to 10 nitrates 20 . ammonia is about a 4.0 i have a 4" pleco,3 platies,5zebra danio and 2 cory........in the first week several fish got ich which use ich rid for 8days and added some salt and cured most fish 1 platy succumbed. and a pleco got burns on its back from the heater which also died........cruddy water didnt help. i have a 100watt heater. an emporer 280 power filter and a bubble stone. and an 1.5 to 2 inches of gravel. 2 days ago i did a 25% water change and added some ace and yesterday added some stress coat and stress zyme............water is still a lil cloudy however all the fish still seem perky and one of my platys stopped ramming the ornaments. i think they're a lil excited about the new addition of the live plants. How much longer will it take for my ammonia and nitrites to go to 0?
 
Although tough to read your post, I have a few quick things:

1.) The product Cycle does not work.
2.) You are going to loose more fish in those conditions.

Your water numbers seem to be WAAYY off. Are you using a strip test kit to test the water? If so, ditch it and buy the liquid regant test kit.

Other than that, your gonna have to wait until some of the more "fish intelligent" people look at this thread.

EDIT: Few more things to add since i've re-read your post

What type of substrate and lighting to you have? If its just normal gravel, chances are you are going to need to fertilize the plants. The lighting is also very important.

Overall it seems like you are adding way to many chemicals to maybe try and speed up the cycle? This is a big mistake. More chemicals usually means more problems. And trying to race through the cycle process is just going to make things horribly bad.
 
HI there and welcome to Aquarium Advice!!! First of all, don't worry about starting off doing all the wrong things - I did it too....

Your ammonia and nitrites are pretty high.... you need to do bigger water changes more often to get those numbers down. You want to shoot for ammonia under 1 and nitrites of 0. Do about 30 - 40% changes every other day or so until your levels come down. Its probably OK to lay off the stress coat and stress zyme for now.

The cloudy water could possibly be dust from your gravel if you didn't rinse it really well before you put it in. I had that too - it goes away with time.

Most importantly, patience is key. Cycling can take WEEKS... although you said you added a "cycle chemical" - what exactly did you put in?
 
Hi fishfoe and Welcome.

1. Cycling takes anywhere from 4-6 weeks depending on the method used.
2. The product "Cycle" contains dormant beneficial bacteria. It will not "cycle" your tank and it is dubious if it provides that much of a difference without using it.
3. The 300 number for nitrites is really way off the scale. What type of test kits are you using (strips or liquid re-agent)? If you don't have liquid re-agent, I would suggest getting them.
4. A ph of 6.2 is very acidic and not not usual. This may be related to the type of test you have.
5. Live plants will consume a lot of the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in your tank. What types of plants and how many total do you have?
 
Welcome to AA! In addition to the great advice already given, IMO the tank is a tad too warm. I would slowly lower the temps to 78-80 for the fish's sake.
 
cycle stuff

aquanewbie72 said:
HI there and welcome to Aquarium Advice!!! First of all, don't worry about starting off doing all the wrong things - I did it too....

Your ammonia and nitrites are pretty high.... you need to do bigger water changes more often to get those numbers down. You want to shoot for ammonia under 1 and nitrites of 0. Do about 30 - 40% changes every other day or so until your levels come down. Its probably OK to lay off the stress coat and stress zyme for now.

The cloudy water could possibly be dust from your gravel if you didn't rinse it really well before you put it in. I had that too - it goes away with time.

Most importantly, patience is key. Cycling can take WEEKS... although you said you added a "cycle chemical" - what exactly did you put in?
cycle by nutrafin
 
His hardness is 300 his nitrites are 10.

You need to do water changes everyday of 50% and get those levels down. Never let the ammonia or nitrites get over .5 with fish in the tank.

Have you tested your tapwater for nitrates? I find it strange that you have nitrates in an uncycled tank with those other readings. I agree with the rest ditch the strips and find an Aquarium Pharmecutical Freshwater Master Kit, they're much more accurate.

Dump the chemicals. If you can find BioSpira buy it and add it to the tank but only AFTER you get the ammonia and nitrites down below .5. If you add it now those readings will kill the BioSpira as its to much at once.

The only chemicals you need are a dechlorinator, Prime is best. I would even overdose the Prime for the 1st few waterchanges during the cycle as it does help with nitrite poisoning.

Also if the Pleco is a common he'll outgrow that tank in 3 months, bring him back to the LFS. You'll be better off with otos but only AFTER the tanks been cycled.

edit: actually I'd do back to back 50% waterchanges today until I got readings of .5.
Pull 50% of the water fill the tank back up, then pull another 50% and fill it up. Repeat the process a few times.
 
water temp

Zagz said:
Welcome to AA! In addition to the great advice already given, IMO the tank is a tad too warm. I would slowly lower the temps to 78-80 for the fish's sake.
thanx for the tip i heard that raising the temp over 80 would prevent ich..............so i did maybe ill bring it down to 80 even
 
This is fishfoes wife. He had to go off to work--but let me say thank goodness for forums like this. I have been telling him this whole time that he is pushing things too fast and not being patient enough. Hopefully hearing it from you guys he will listen and get his tank straightened out. thanks again for all the helpful advice. I am sure he will be back on here first thing in the morning to check out what to do.

eta: he has four real plants. I am not sure what they are. one is purple with longeish leaves, one kinda looks like bamboo but he said it isn't, the other two are the same--long stems short leaves-he said they were good oxygenators. he is also using strips which I told him were a waste of money. I use only liquid reagent for the pool and that's what I told him to use...again I hope he listens to the experts better than he's listened to me:)
 
here are some pics of the plants we have
 

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A mod may want to move this to the planted forum. You will get some more plant specific advice there.

Get a reagent liquid test kit. Like listed above it can take over 6 weeks for a cycle to finish. However with plants you may not even see a cycle in the traditional sense. The plants will consume the ammonia, so you may need detect much of it. This will leave less available to feed the nitrifying bacteria, this will prolong it. The plants also require nitrAtes in a range of 5-20 ppm. The whole aquarium becomes more involved and complicated with the addition of plants. Stop adding all those chemicals to the tank. In aquaria less is more. Forget all those test number listed in your 1st post. With ammonia at 4ppm most if not all of the fish would not have made it this far.

Read the sticky's in the planted forum.

Good Luck,
Brian
 
Welcome fishfoe!

I'm a bit of a naturalist so all those chemicals are making my head swim. Unless I'm medicating I use nothing but Prime (as a chlorine/chloramine remover). Prime does have the added benefit of converting some of the ammonia to a non toxic form and helping reduce nitrite poisoning. Chemicals like ACE are really not working for you as they bind the ammonia where the good bacteria can't get to it. Your best friend over the next few weeks is going to be your water change bucket! :)

If I were given this tank, this would be my plan of attack.
Check my dechlored tap water for pH/kH, ammonia and nitrate.(with liquid drop test if possible). Write this down, as well as all other test results. You'll have a better visual of your progress this way.
If my tap was close to what the tank read, I would immediately do a 50% water change, dechloring and making sure the temp matched. (If it was greatly different, I would do 3-4 25% changes before going to 50% changes).
Wait an hour or so and test the tank for ammonia and nitrite. If either of them were over 1ppm I'd do another 50% change.
12 hours later I'd test again and repeat the above until I started seeing ammonia going down.
At that point I would start testing for nitrate in addition to the ammonia and nitrite.
Keep testing and water changes through the nitrite spike as well.
I would also see if the LFS would accept the pleco back for fish credit, and possibly the cories as the cories are more sensitive than the platy and danios. The pleco is likely to just flat out get tooooo big for a 20 gallon tank. Maybe even look for plants like water wisteria, or water sprite as they are fast growers and use up some of the ammonia and nitrite.

A few more suggestions. Lower the temp just a bit and increase your aeration. Nitrite inhibits oxygen uptake. The salt you were using for the ich has helped in that aspect though. Also, feed only a tiny tiny bit every other day. The fish will be fine with limited food and it will make your job easier. Once you are down to 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and showing 5-10ppm nitrate you can start daily feedings.

Good luck! And know most of us have been just where you were at one point or another. My very first tank was a 29 gallon that I stocked with about 15 african cichlids. Let's just say that ended VERY badly, but I've done a ton of learning since then. You'll get there, patience is the key :)

Keep us posted!
 
Macrosill said:
A mod may want to move this to the planted forum. You will get some more plant specific advice there.

Get a reagent liquid test kit. Like listed above it can take over 6 weeks for a cycle to finish. However with plants you may not even see a cycle in the traditional sense. The plants will consume the ammonia, so you may need detect much of it. This will leave less available to feed the nitrifying bacteria, this will prolong it. The plants also require nitrAtes in a range of 5-20 ppm. The whole aquarium becomes more involved and complicated with the addition of plants. Stop adding all those chemicals to the tank. In aquaria less is more. Forget all those test number listed in your 1st post. With ammonia at 4ppm most if not all of the fish would not have made it this far.

Read the sticky's in the planted forum.

Good Luck,
Brian

I'd like to comment on this post so that inaccurate information is not passed on. You have very few plants in the tank. It will not affect the cycle time at ALL, the only thing it will do is possibly keep the high ammonia and nitrAte slightly lower, but that is doubtful if you have relatively low lighting (stock lighting for instance).

The one picture looks to be anacharis which is a great low light fast growing plant. This one is excellent at soaking up the extra ammonia and will grow very quickly if other nutrients are available and you have adequate lighting (frequent water changes will help replenish these).

I will agree about stop adding chemicals EXCEPT for the dechlor (I can't remember if this is the stresszyme or the stresscoat). Take a look on the bottle and find which one is a dechlor and continue to use that with the water changes. I prefer Prime, but you need to get some water changes done ASAP. I'd do a 75% water change and then continue to do water changes until you get down below 1ppm or ammonia and nitrIte. The larger water change you do at a time the faster the numbers will go down, so 3 75% water changes back to back will get your ammonia to close to zero, and your nitrItes below 0.25ppm as well. Your test strips are NOT accurate but they are better than nothing. While I don't believe the tank is really at 4ppm ammonia and 10ppm nitrIte, in your case I would pretend that they are accurate and do water changes until you get those values down. I also believe you have nitrAte in your tap water.

Make sure the water being added back into the tank is the same temperature as the tank water and that you add the dechlor.

Feed your fish much less frequently and much less food. I'd cut the normal feedings in half, and if you feed more than once a day, cut back to only once a day. Make sure each fish gets some food so that none starve, but you need to lower your bioload as much as possible. The bacteria will not suffer at all in the tank because they feed on undetectable levels of ammonia and nitrIte. Your plants will also be fine since if you have low light (and low CO2) they really cannot take up much ammonia or nitrAte.

Your pH is also very low and I believe it is due to all of the chemicals that have recently been put in the tank. A couple water changes with just dechlor will bring that number back up to a more neutral level.

I will also recommend trying to return or give away the pleco if possible, UNLESS it is a bristlenose or some other dwarf species of pleco. Otherwise the fish will get MUCH to big for your tank. After you are completely cycled, a small school of Oto's (3 or so) and cory catfish (2-3) will be great algae and food cleanup crews, but these are sensitive fish and should only be added AFTER no ammonia or nitrIte can be detected.

I'd keep the live plants for now, just make sure if they die they are not left to rot in the tank or clog the filter. They will help slightly to reduce toxins in the water, but the effectiveness is completely up to your light/CO2 and nutrient levels.

Goodluck, and relax. If you do the proper water changes, reduce feedings, and keep an eye on the fish, the tank will be fine!

justin
 
50% water change this am do i need another?

Gena575 said:
Welcome fishfoe!

I'm a bit of a naturalist so all those chemicals are making my head swim. Unless I'm medicating I use nothing but Prime (as a chlorine/chloramine remover). Prime does have the added benefit of converting some of the ammonia to a non toxic form and helping reduce nitrite poisoning. Chemicals like ACE are really not working for you as they bind the ammonia where the good bacteria can't get to it. Your best friend over the next few weeks is going to be your water change bucket! :)

If I were given this tank, this would be my plan of attack.
Check my dechlored tap water for pH/kH, ammonia and nitrate.(with liquid drop test if possible). Write this down, as well as all other test results. You'll have a better visual of your progress this way.
If my tap was close to what the tank read, I would immediately do a 50% water change, dechloring and making sure the temp matched. (If it was greatly different, I would do 3-4 25% changes before going to 50% changes).
Wait an hour or so and test the tank for ammonia and nitrite. If either of them were over 1ppm I'd do another 50% change.
12 hours later I'd test again and repeat the above until I started seeing ammonia going down.
At that point I would start testing for nitrate in addition to the ammonia and nitrite.
Keep testing and water changes through the nitrite spike as well.
I would also see if the LFS would accept the pleco back for fish credit, and possibly the cories as the cories are more sensitive than the platy and danios. The pleco is likely to just flat out get tooooo big for a 20 gallon tank. Maybe even look for plants like water wisteria, or water sprite as they are fast growers and use up some of the ammonia and nitrite.

A few more suggestions. Lower the temp just a bit and increase your aeration. Nitrite inhibits oxygen uptake. The salt you were using for the ich has helped in that aspect though. Also, feed only a tiny tiny bit every other day. The fish will be fine with limited food and it will make your job easier. Once you are down to 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and showing 5-10ppm nitrate you can start daily feedings.

Good luck! And know most of us have been just where you were at one point or another. My very first tank was a 29 gallon that I stocked with about 15 african cichlids. Let's just say that ended VERY badly, but I've done a ton of learning since then. You'll get there, patience is the key :)

Keep us posted![ i did a 50% water change this am and my numbers turned around alot nitrates are between 10-20
nitrites 1.0-3.0
hardness 150
alkalinity 0-40
ph between 6.8-7.2
ammonia between .25-.5

can't wait till the python gets here and those plants really stink and i found a small snail on my glass today and promptly removed
should i do another water change now-tonite and if so how much?
 
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