Changed 50% Water-Tetras Now Non-Responsive

[saa5886]

Alright so... this is baffling me now... after going to the pet store and returning some product I didnt need (and after a 25% water change) I came back to an even cloudier tank (so white I couldnt see my fish!).
I decided to add my gravel to the bottom, so I put the fish all in a big glass bowl with their original water, and cleaned out 50% of the water. Upon putting all the fish back, all my neons decided they would become non-responsive unless poked. All my other fish? Perfectly happy.
What is up?

 

[Crepe]

You shouldn't have removed the fish when adding the gravel. It wasn't necessary. Also did you rinse the gravel before you added it? It may contribute to your cloudiness. Also don't worry about the cloudiness too much it'll clear up in a few days and isn't detrimental to the fish. Be less worried about the aspects of your water that you can see and more worried about the actual contents in it at the microscopic level. (and sub-microscopic)

 

[saa5886]

Well I did rinse the gravel under hot water for a minute, but perhaps not well enough. As for the Tetras, two of them miraculously came back to life after I poked them for a while. Weird.
I was told the cloudiness was a bacterial overgrowth from adding too many fish at once, and to change some of the water daily. I dont know what to believe. I'll just wait it out.

 

[HN1]

Did the temp fluctuate? Temp matched water, cooled off rocks?

 

[saa5886]

the temp went up a degree... well, i lost two...but it couldve been worse...i had 5 total but it was the two of the three survivers that astonished me...they were acting dead, and 5 minutes later...awake!
Who knows...

 

[Mark Hewitt]

Sounds like they were in a bit of shock and stressed due to their move. Give them a while, they'll probably recover (or die!).

In general you should only remove fish from the tank as a very last resort as taking them out will stress them way more than almost anything you'll do with the tank when they are in there. Or if they are anything like my sailfin molly they'll think anything you do is amazing and swim around all excited!

 

[StuG]

I'm guessing poking them probably doesn't exactly make them feel at ease either
The first time I did a PWC my fish acted like that. Totally unresponsive. I figured I probably had been too rough with the gravel vac.
They still get a little stressed whenever I do a change, but not as bad as that first time.

 

[brimac41]

Agreed , it would have been better to leave the fish in the aquarium . anything that spooks or stresses the fish causes them to release horomones in an alarm responce to get away . Adrenalin is one of those hormones . This disturbs the osmoregulation (control of the salt/water balance) of the fish throwing it off balance . Also Spooking them will also disturb the horonone , coristol , which affects the white blood cells , which in turn reduces their effectiveness of their immune system . This throws the fish's immune system off balance and it can take hours to sometime days for them to recover . And the fish already being in an unhealthy enviroment , eg: cycling with that many fish , they are really fighting a losing battle unless the proper steps are taken to keep them healthy . So I would definitely do Partial Water Changes and I would do the PWCs' slowly and deliberately , so as not to alarm the fish any more than one has too , and do not net them , poke them or handle them neither . They need calm and quiet with fresh clean water , proper filtration and steady/healthy water parameters .

 

[saa5886]

you dont think removing a carpet of grass and laying down an entire bag of rocks and then returning everything to the tank wouldve scared them?
I wasnt just laying in a couple rocks...I was re-doing the whole thing. Apparently my undergravel filter wouldnt work too well without gravel...thats what i was doing...shouldve clarified

 

[Mark Hewitt]

Tbh yes. Changing the substrate is one of the situations where it is best to remove the fish. I did when I took out my gravel and replaced it with sand.

Yes an undergravel filter does need gravel to work properly as that is what it is using to hold the bacteria. However these are not very good filters and I would advise getting an internal filter or hang on back if you can.

 

[brimac41]

you dont think removing a carpet of grass and laying down an entire bag of rocks and then returning everything to the tank wouldve scared them?
I wasnt just laying in a couple rocks...I was re-doing the whole thing. Apparently my undergravel filter wouldnt work too well without gravel...thats what i was doing...shouldve clarified

Yes , it would have startled them , but adding gravel slowly a handful at a time would be safer than netting them is all I am saying . By netting them , you have to chase them around freaking them out even more than just sticking a hand in there with them gently spreading out the gravel . Also the fabric removes their slime coat which aids in preventing parasites , along with the oft chance of causing bodily harm . When adding gravel slowly , all they had to do is move to one side of the aquarium and avoid what is going on on the other side of the tank .

I have completely redone my aquascape in my tanks at one time or another . In other words , I have completely removed everything out of it , but I still left the fish in tank . They simply go to the opposite side and waited till I was done . I just took it slow and easy . Now sand may be another story as I have never used sand , though I am sure it is harder to place sand in an established aquarium . But gravel is not as messy and easier to handle and can be done with the tank topped off with water .

I also agree with Mark , that an UGF is not the fbest filter when their are so many reasonably priced Hang on backs out there that would do a much better job . UGFs' will work but one must , every so often , make sure they get the slime cleaned out that builds up underneath them . But then again , I am not a big fan of them so I am biased .

Please do not take it that we are attacking you or jumping on you for removing them , we all learn by trial and error . Many who are new to the hobby read these threads and may be in the same position you are in , so they will learn . There are many knowledgable aquarists on here , with many , many years of experience and I myself have been at this hobby (well more like an obsession) for many years and I still learn something new everytime I come on here .

 

[Mark Hewitt]

Plus you can be certain that we've all made just the same mistakes. I know have!

 

[brimac41]

Plus you can be certain that we've all made just the same mistakes. I know have!

Very true . I have made many mistakes when I first started , but this was the days before the internet . Now it is so easy for newbies to come to sites like this and ask questions , to study and learn how to set up , cycle and take care of their wet pets and aquariums before they even purchase an aquarium .

When I first started , I was getting advice from an old time fish keeper , who was still stuck in the days before power filters were cheap and available most everywhere that sells fish and UGF's were the norm and he told me much of what was stated to the OP here . Water changes were unneeded , heaters were not needed etc; etc ; Through time and experience and the loss of fish and/or fish merely surviving instead of thriving I have learned how wrong he was . And this forum has opened my eyes to so much more . And to think I thought the Internet was a passing fad back in the Windows '95 days .

 

[saa5886]

well, this isnt my first tank...just my first time having neons and theyre proving to be quite the boogers lol
last night for instance one disappeared. i took the plants and rocks out and searched far and wide for 20 minutes.
i finally gave up and went to bed ...this morning aseem wakes up (my fiance) and he was back with the other neons! where he was hiding...ill never know...

 

[brimac41]

LOL , I have had one or two disappear over the years . One showed up and I still have no idea where he was hiding . And not long ago , I had another disappear and I have never found him . I even removed everything from the tank so , if he died , it wouldn't foul up the water . All I can guess is that he jumped out and one of my dogs made a snack out of him .