Chemistry fix?

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MikeSD

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
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It's a fairly new tank. I have been having about a fish a day dying. I have only two kinds of fish, for now. I have a few guppies and a few Mollys.

Started with about 10 in a 10 gal tank. Now it has about half that amount. Water temp is ok. Thought it was one of my guppies killing off the others. it is particularly aggressive to other fish. One guppie had about half a fin forn off.

We have live plants in about 1/3 of the tank. We added plsnts because one Molly and one Guppy had a bunch of fry and needed a place to hide.

On a hunch today I tested the water. Almost ever parameter is in the danger area. GH is on the low side of normal, KH is about 40, Ph is 6, Nitrite is 5, Nitrate is about 100.

My problem is what is the best way to fix this? Im thinking a water change might be the first place to start. It's been about a week with this water. But my water source might be suspect too. Its loaded with chemicals to the point my wife and I drink bottled water.

The other question is does fixing one parameter mess up another? Is there one parameter I should start with or try to fix all at same time?

I'll be researching this tonight, and going to aquarium store tomorrow. But you guys are the expert.;)
 
Not experts. Just experienced. Your tank is cycling. In your research look up "fish in cycle". First thing you wanta do is test your tap water. Then do water changes. Vacuum the bottom of the tank. Your waste is building up causing ammonia to rise. You want your ammonia at .25 and no higher than .50 this is only when cycling the the tank. You want to test your tank water everyday and do water changes as needed.( Not to big)50-60% at a time. What ever your ammonia level is, you need to double the % of your water changes. But in cycle you gotta leave your .25 to finish your cycle. Make sure your treating the water too. Seachem prime is what a lot of people (And myself) use. Follow the directions on the bottle. Hope things work out.
 
If your water is so bad that you drink bottled water, you should get a complete professional test. Nitrates and ammonia are one thing but you might have other issues that are more serious.
 
If your water is so bad that you drink bottled water, you should get a complete professional test. Nitrates and ammonia are one thing but you might have other issues that are more serious.

That could be true, but it's been this way since we bought the house new, some 30 years ago. It's just city water, not nuclear waste site. ;) And it works well in our other tank. This was a new tank setup. Likely just not cycled long enough or properly.

Going to the aquarium store to have them check the water and see if they see the same thing I see.
 
You also sound overstocked, that's a lot of fish in a small tank, especially livebearers who will keep breeding. Mollies also get pretty big. I'd do hefty water changes and see about maybe getting a bigger tank
 
You also sound overstocked, that's a lot of fish in a small tank, especially livebearers who will keep breeding. Mollies also get pretty big. I'd do hefty water changes and see about maybe getting a bigger tank

I have two 50 gal tanks. one is setting empty. I guess I could us that one. But I doubt its an overcrowding issue. Besides, after the first three died, it wouldnt be over crowded.

After the water change (40%) and a little more wster treatment and putting my aggressive guppy in my goldfish tank ( now thats overcrowded), fish dying seems to have stopped.

Im out of water test strips so im going to aquarium store and have my water tested. Im also wonder if lack of oxygen might be the problem. I have one of those back of tank filters that spills water bank into tank. i dont have any other airation. Might get one of those sponge filters to generate some airation bubbles
 
Update:

1) Took a bottle of water, from tank to fish store to have it tested. He said most of the parameters were ok but Ph was a little low at 6.5. But did say there was too much ammonia. He suggested not feeding so much, and doing another 40% water change and retesting.

2) He said the number of guppies had was not too much for the tank

3) He also said I dint' have too many plants and didn't need any more filtering.

So, I'll give it a try. One note, none of the adults have died since the water change.
 
Pulling my hair out

We got the Ph, Nitrate, Nitrite about right. Ammonia is less than 1. Temp is good (about 78). Let it sit for a few days and added some 3 female guppies, 3 female balloon mollies.

But again, the female mollies began to die, within a couple days. Some fry were present. Guppies and male b mollies seem to be ok.

About the only thing I haven't checked is water hardness. Going to get a KH test kit and check out the water. I have been having trouble getting the Ph up to 7. It's about 6.5. But it's my understanding that mollies actually prefer a little higher Ph and KH.

* Could that be what's killing the female balloon mollies?
* We have been watching for other fish attacking them but don't see that

Tank:
1 male balloon molly
3 female balloon mollies
1 male guppie
3 female guppies

Until this morning. I think we have only 1 female balloon mollie now. :(

I think I'm going to try hardening the water and bringing the Ph up; a little

What would be the proper sequence? Fix the hardness first, then fix the PH?

Ideas?


Side topic, but related


I kind of find the chemistry interesting. Mostly understand it. But regarding hardness, is the KH the better hardness test to do, or are GH and KH equally important?
 
Honestly, I would not fix anything (except for the ammonia via water changes).
6.5 pH is not low for those fish. What are the readings for nitrite and nitrate?
As for cycling, you can use some of the filter media from the existing tanks to help seed this tank.
 
Now I'm confused even more.

I generally thought high KH would generally have high Ph. True or not? I kind of understood that was for "in the tank" but not sure what is possible right out of a faucet.

But today, I decided to test my water right out of the faucet. I tested KH and PH.

These were results.

KH
* put 5ml of water in the tube.
* added a single drop and shook
* water turned pale blue
* added a 2nd drop and shook
* water turned light yellow
Result: KH=2

Ph
* filled tube to line
* added 3 drops of Ph solution
* capped and shook
* water turned a deep blue (see photo)
Results: Ph = 7.6+

This is kind of opposite of what I was expecting, since in my tank, the Ph was about 6.5 but I never tested the KH with fish.

Is is perfectly normal that KH and Ph don't track out of a faucet?

I'm going to test my tank later today. It's been cycling for 2 days only so far, but I want to get an idea what it's doing. So far, no fish, but I have de-chlorinated it. And will be putting a bit of food in to begin the cycle.

* Would there be any precautions when trying to get the correct Ph and KH, seeing as how they are on opposite extremes?

* Which should I try to correct first?
Ph results
KH-PHx_tap.jpg
 
Situation: Balloon Mollies dying.

I'm now thinking perhaps my water may be too soft. Tap water is 7.6 ph and KH is 17ppm or 35ppm depending. Do all drops count in the API test. I watched one video that didnt count the 1st. But another counted both.

So my KH is based on a total of 2 drops. 1 got water blue. The 2nd drip turned it yellow. Would that be 17 or 35ppm.

Either way, I think my KH needs to be higher for better buffering.

I would like my tank to be low maintenance. I dont want to be adding a bunch of chemicals everytime i do a water change.

All that said, I think my best course might be to add some substrate that hardens water by release of minerals. But what kind and how much?

New Tank is 29 gal. Is currently cycling, day 3. I will be adding typical tropical fish. Nothing exotic. What can I add that will give good buffering and raise KH that will allow me to do partial water changes without having to add a bunch of chemicals.
 
What is your nitrate level at? Your a mess. Lol! Test your nitrate, nitrite, ammonia. And post that. And another question... Did you add an air stone? Another thing about Molly's, you might wanta try to add in some aquarium salt, sometimes do better.
 
Are all needed posts visible now? (I removed one as duplicate creation of other fyi).

Yep, all is good now. The missing post was the last one on page 1. when I saw the problem, it was being shown on page 2 but I couldn't access it.

Back on topic

I think my priblem now is in trying to understand, from an academic point of view, the best way to increase KH, without having to stand over a water change, with chemicals and such. And without blowing Ph to hell.

My Ph is 7.6ish right out of faucet. Measuring water in my smaller tank, it measured 6 to 6.5. Thats a pretty substantial swing. My KH is 35ppm out if faucet. So there isn't much buffering.

The one fact I have is my female Balloon Mollies have all died. My guppies and male Mollies seem fine.

I'm thinking my water is too soft, causing my Ph to fluctuate too much, too quickly. Just a guess. Correct me if my thinking is flawed.

I dont like the idea of using equilibrium or one of those solutions. I'm thinking of something that will gradually put some buffering back into the system, like crushed coral or some method similar.

What is the concensus on the right way to solve this problem? I've thought about adding a small back of tank filter, removing charcoal bag and adding a bag of crushed coral. But I'm not sure if that would be too much, too little, or too stupid. :)
 
Did you test ph of tap water after letting it sit in a glass overnight to degas / warm up. At my old place - straight from tap was ~8.2 and after overnight in glass it dropped to true ~7.8
 
Did you test ph of tap water after letting it sit in a glass overnight to degas / warm up. At my old place - straight from tap was ~8.2 and after overnight in glass it dropped to true ~7.8

Yes, sort of. I filled my tank yesterday, and there are no fish or chemicals added yet. It's still testing same as the tap water.
 
I guess I'm just going to have to run some tests to find the solution. Doesn't seem to be a consensus on how to handle High Ph with Low KH, when you need higher KH and Ph about right.

I've tested this out of the tap, in my test tank with no fish) and in my 10 gal guppy tank. All are currently about the same. Ph>7.5, KH lower than 35.

But
* I did have at least one time, when Ph had dropped to 6.
* And I have had female balloon mollies die during that period.

My thought was to try and raise KH, without changing Ph much. Maybe I'm stuck between rock and hard spot.

On a good note, none of my fish are dying in the 10 gal tank now, with these condition. But, I have no more female mollies in it. I do have 5 fry from the last one that died, in a partitioned tank.

I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and buy some buffering stuff. AND buy some crushed coral, and do some testing. Might take a while. I have no idea how much coral to add, to try and raise the KH to about 150.
 
Just try adding a handful of crushed coral or cuttlebone, etc to the tank or filter and see how it goes. The coral is relatively slow on reacting (due to large grain size) but is a proven method.

Faster methods are adding baking soda (start small teaspoon doses as very reactive) or I have calcium carbonate (as a powder ie powdered limestone) that I dose a teaspoon a week as part of ferts dosing.

It’s generally pretty hard on common material we can get to increase ph without increasing kh yes. But I wouldn’t say you have high ph until above 8 so would try the crushed coral or crushed limestone first.

Adding to the filter increases reactivity with extra water flow FYI.

There are also carbonate buffers that I think seachem or saltwater tanks use. Have used these but powdered carbonate does same job for me and cheaper. Definitely I would skip phosphate buffers - very good buffers but mask what’s actually going on in the tank.

Would aim for above 100ppm kh. Assuming not keeping African cichlids or something.

On the other hand, any soft water fish will love your tank.
 
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I feel like I just finished a Chemistry class. But thats a good thing. After all the research over the past week, and with everyone's help, I think I have a good handle on water chemistry and how I need to go about this.

On my original problem (2nd tank, 10 gal), I havent lost any fish in about 6 days now, and I have found 7 fry still surviving on my isolated part of that tank.

Photo sucks but
2nd_Tank.jpg

Im going to start slow on my 3rd tank by continuing to monitor water as I add fish, slowly.

My first tank (47 gal) is doing fine. It's over stuffed with goldfish. Way too many but I'll need to setup my other 47 gal tank before I can do anything about that. We took over a friends tank and fish because he couldnt keep it.

goldfish_640.jpg


3rd Tank (work in progress)
3rd_tank.jpg


Video
https://youtu.be/koRVYUWJZtE
 
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