Classroom Teacher with class pets....

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Yep, let's just tell everyone who has incompatible fish in an uncycled tank which they have limited access to, and who does not have the financial means to purchase necessary items to maintain that aquarium that everything is wonderful. Sorry, but providing advice (and great information has been given) also involves pointing out the negatives about the situation which need to be remedied. Nothing here IMO has even come remotely close to crossing any lines or being harsh towards the OP. In fact, I may be about to come the closest...part of being responsible for children should be setting a good example for them. I agree to re-home the Mollys (perhaps on CL as mentioned, or in the classifieds section of this site), cycling the tank and keeping the frogs which apparently the kids are the most interested in anyway and would actually be in a suitable environment.

Indeed, I agree; aquarium keeping should be limited to those of higher financial status and a wealth of experience. :rolleyes:

Didn't you all start somewhere? I'd love to know how many on these boards started their first aquarium with all the required knowledge, money, and experience to have it be a complete success.
 
Indeed, I agree; aquarium keeping should be limited to those of higher financial status and a wealth of experience. :rolleyes:

Didn't you all start somewhere? I'd love to know how many on these boards started their first aquarium with all the required knowledge, money, and experience to have it be a complete success.

Doesn't need to be limited to "higher financial status"...but part of being responsible for a living animal is the ability to provide for them. Have you ever had a filter break on you? I have. In fact I can't tell you how many times over the years of fish keeping where I've had to make a mad dash to the store and drop $ because an impeller broke, there is an illness which requires medication, etc... Would you buy a dog if you didn't have the means to rush him to the vet with a broken leg? How about a cat you couldn't afford food for? The situation with fish is no different. A broken filter + no ability to purchase a new one = fish sitting in stagnant water slowly dying. So yeah, I guess I do believe it should be limited to people who have the "financial status" to be responsible for an animal who directly relies on you for it's life and wellbeing.
 
Did I say tell anyone that it's wonderful? No. Did I say help them deal with the immediate problem while helping them figure out their options... perhaps it took more sentences but yes.

Would she likely need to return the fish, at a loss of money that can't be avoided and is just something that happens, or rehome them through craigslist... quite possibly, yes. There are, however, more than one way to say things.

That's aside from the fact that I KNOW the things in Librarygirls post. I'm familiar with everything she mentions EXCEPT specific things related to the mollies and the frogs. I'm reasonably experienced now, though I'm always learning more. However, I walked away from Librarygirls post less informed and more annoyed... and I couldn't quote anything she says here because nothing stuck with me because of how it was delivered. Frankly, I had to struggle to finish reading it, and at the second am not even sure I managed too.

If someone experienced in the hobby ended reading in that state, what state is a new person who wanted someone to say "here, let me help. To start you'll need to do this..." and then get to the "You'll want testing supplies, though if that's tight you can... (And yes, there are options other than a twenty to forty dollar test kit, rather you like the strips or not).

Bluntly, short term, that's the responsible course of action instead of having someone run out to get a test kit they may have to look in seven places for (Heres a hint, pet smart and pet co are really good at NOT having them) and leaving the fish in toxic circumstances any longer than they have to... OH, and all without managing to make someone NOT want to do this hobby ever again in their life.

The second option doesn't spread education, but can stifle it. In this case, it could have stifled not one potential aquarist... but a room full of them. All because "Blunt Truth" was more important than "Sensitive, useful assistance".
 
Renegade - you have to also understand that this is more than just someone's personal aquarium. This is something being set up in a classroom, and will be observed and analyzed by a room full of impressionable young people who (whether it's the subject of the class or not) will learn things from this aquarium.

I understand that LibraryGirl is not teaching Marine Biology, and that this is only supposed to be a "classroom pet" - but children learn from their surroundings. And if she sets up this tank with incompatible fish and an uncycled tank - how many of her students are going to think "Well, our teacher did it this way, so I guess it's OK that we do it too".

And what happens when the fish (potentially) die from nitrite poisoning? Is the "classroom pet" going to become an emergency lesson in aquatic medicine?

We are being particularly critical here because this is not just one person's aquarium. This is the future of proper understanding for that entire classroom of students.
 
Renegade - you have to also understand that this is more than just someone's personal aquarium. This is something being set up in a classroom, and will be observed and analyzed by a room full of impressionable young people who (whether it's the subject of the class or not) will learn things from this aquarium.

I understand that LibraryGirl is not teaching Marine Biology, and that this is only supposed to be a "classroom pet" - but children learn from their surroundings. And if she sets up this tank with incompatible fish and an uncycled tank - how many of her students are going to think "Well, our teacher did it this way, so I guess it's OK that we do it too".

And what happens when the fish (potentially) die from nitrite poisoning? Is the "classroom pet" going to become an emergency lesson in aquatic medicine?

We are being particularly critical here because this is not just one person's aquarium. This is the future of proper understanding for that entire classroom of students.

I do have to agree with your counter point here. I just feel, and Renegade really seems to be in the same position as me, though I won't really try to speak for him, that while the information was correct it wasn't disseminated in the best way. How's it affect the hobby for the room full of people if the teacher decides to just shut the whole thing down because "It's far more difficult than I thought."

I mean, is it? Yes.
Is it as ridiculously difficult as some of the posts to newbies I've seen make it seem (Not just these, btw)? Not at all.

Just because Librarygirl was right, and I agree her information was all correct, doesn't mean it was delivered effectively. And frankly, I'm not sure this is really where we should be discussing this anymore. Perhaps someone should start a new forum posting on how the best method to approach confused (And possibly horribly badly informed) newcomers. As it stands, I'd be terribly shocked if this teacher ever darkened our doorstep again!
 
By all means - I sympathize with the original poster, because my first aquarium was actually an overpriced gimmick aquarium kit (10gal) that I put 4 mollies into without cycling.

It was a horrible experience and I would rather not see someone else experience it.

Believe me - If I lived anywhere near this teacher I would gladly volunteer my free time to help set up a great aquarium for the classroom. But I was raised on sayings like "measure twice - cut once" and I grew up in an educational system where, if you failed - you failed. There was no "remedial, second-third-fourth chance no child left behind" educational system.

So you can understand why I'm a bit cynical.
 
+1 to librarygirl's advice
+1 to the delivery and presentation of librarygirl's advice
+1 to Steez's defense of Librarygirl
+1 to Vicamore's point about setting an example for a room full of children
-1 to all the sensitivity flying around this thread

Give your advice on the situation, provide information, and if you have personal issues with the delivery of the information...contact that member via PM. If you guys think information like that is too brutal...try visiting some other aquarium sites and see how that advice is delivered...AA is like Candyland compared to how members are treated on other forums.
 
Oh I dig you there, and definitely oppose giving faulty info just to make someone happy. I just lap know I learned more from the plesant but firm teachers than I ever did from the one who hit, too. The info dump, then test ones basically only taught me to stop asking them questions which was bad.
 
Doesn't need to be limited to "higher financial status"...but part of being responsible for a living animal is the ability to provide for them. Have you ever had a filter break on you? I have. In fact I can't tell you how many times over the years of fish keeping where I've had to make a mad dash to the store and drop $ because an impeller broke, there is an illness which requires medication, etc... Would you buy a dog if you didn't have the means to rush him to the vet with a broken leg? How about a cat you couldn't afford food for? The situation with fish is no different. A broken filter + no ability to purchase a new one = fish sitting in stagnant water slowly dying. So yeah, I guess I do believe it should be limited to people who have the "financial status" to be responsible for an animal who directly relies on you for it's life and wellbeing.

Please show me anywhere in the OP original post or following, were she said she was financially unable to provide? She clearly stated she was on a budget, not that she was financially unable.

Renegade - you have to also understand that this is more than just someone's personal aquarium. This is something being set up in a classroom, and will be observed and analyzed by a room full of impressionable young people who (whether it's the subject of the class or not) will learn things from this aquarium.

I understand that LibraryGirl is not teaching Marine Biology, and that this is only supposed to be a "classroom pet" - but children learn from their surroundings. And if she sets up this tank with incompatible fish and an uncycled tank - how many of her students are going to think "Well, our teacher did it this way, so I guess it's OK that we do it too".

And what happens when the fish (potentially) die from nitrite poisoning? Is the "classroom pet" going to become an emergency lesson in aquatic medicine?

We are being particularly critical here because this is not just one person's aquarium. This is the future of proper understanding for that entire classroom of students.

Indeed it is and I absolutely agree that it is in fact a wonderful learning experience. Part of what we all learn in life is that we all make mistakes, we learn from our mistakes and we move forward. The vast majority of successful learning (and teaching for that matter) is in the approach. As was previously stated,

As it stands, I'd be terribly shocked if this teacher ever darkened our doorstep again!

By all means - I sympathize with the original poster, because my first aquarium was actually an overpriced gimmick aquarium kit (10gal) that I put 4 mollies into without cycling.

It was a horrible experience and I would rather not see someone else experience it.

Believe me - If I lived anywhere near this teacher I would gladly volunteer my free time to help set up a great aquarium for the classroom. But I was raised on sayings like "measure twice - cut once" and I grew up in an educational system where, if you failed - you failed. There was no "remedial, second-third-fourth chance no child left behind" educational system.

So you can understand why I'm a bit cynical.

I do indeed, the fact is you are volunteering here aren't you? Not getting paid to give advice are we? All I'm saying is the person on the other end of the post is a human being who deserves a little respect.

+1 to librarygirl's advice
+1 to the delivery and presentation of librarygirl's advice
+1 to Steez's defense of Librarygirl
+1 to Vicamore's point about setting an example for a room full of children
-1 to all the sensitivity flying around this thread

Give your advice on the situation, provide information, and if you have personal issues with the delivery of the information...contact that member via PM. If you guys think information like that is too brutal...try visiting some other aquarium sites and see how that advice is delivered...AA is like Candyland compared to how members are treated on other forums.

Depends totally on the forum my friend. I love how people on the internet believe that the fact they are on the internet gives them the right to be rude and tell people if they don't like it here they oughta go somewhere else. You're in this thread just because you're looking for drama ~ you've offered nothing constructive, how about you move on? The initial points and counter points were made, and the thread was ready to get back on track, now you've managed to derail it again completely.
 
ENOUGH! This thread has went from helping the OP to helping each others ego. I'm half tempted to close it, but since the OP has valid questions and needs assistance, I will refrain. Any further bickering, arguments, etc will be dealt with privately. I'd suggest you all take a step back and remember why we're here... to help people... not to see who has the most knowledge, experience, money, etc.
 
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