Crazy Ammonia Issues

[slinky]

Hi guys - I got my first aquarium and made the mistake of having the people in the store tell me that after a few hours of having the API bacteria stuff sit in the tank (Stress Zyme I think it is) then it would be safe to put the fish in. It's a 10 gallon hex tank with 2 small mollies, a fancy betta and a small 2" rainbow shark. They all seem very happy in there and get along well. It's been almost 4 days now and so far all the fish still look OK.

The problem is as follows. There are no nitrates or nitrites in the tank. pH seems to be balanced at 7. The water is supposedly "hard" according to a 5 in 1 test kit. But the ammonia levels skyrocketed to somewhere over 1.0. I put in ammo lock and performed a 25% water change last night. So I understand the water will be green still but the ammonia isn't toxic. I put in a Mardel LiveNH reader just to be sure but it reads as 100% safe, no ammonia level in the tank. Go figure. This morning I read the water with a kit and the ammonia is still over 1 but with such a drastic water change I can't understand why there still is such a reading. I've fed the fish less (just one small pinch of food) twice a day which should limit ammonia.

Hopefully someone can help me out here. Yes, I realize that the tank needed to be cycled longer now but it is what it is and the fish were there. Anyone conjecture how the ammonia stays so high?

 

[rich311k]

The ammonia will stay that high for a few weeks. You need to do 50% water changes to keep it under .5ppm. In another week or so you should start to see nitrite. You will need to do water changes to keep the nitrite under .5 ppm as well.

Everything you have described is perfectly normal. Welcome to the site!!!

 

[zacusmaximus]

Ammo Lock will de-toxify the ammonia, but test kits will still pick up ammonia even after its been treated by Ammo Lock.

Keep up daily 25% PWC's until your cycle completes. With each PWC, re-dose a full 10gallon measure of Ammo-Lock. If you can get your hands on some seeded substrate or filter media that may help speed along your cycle. Also, I recommend Seachem Prime for water treatment/dechlorination.

Bettas aren't usually kept as tankmates with much, possibly small cartfish, snails, or a few small and peaceful tetras. That 2" shark will grow to be QUITE large (6"+), much too large for a 10hex, so plan accordingly.

Congrats on your first tank! Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[tkos]

25% is a drastic change of water. Think about it, you are only removing 25% of 1 ppm of ammonia. That level will just build right back up. The best you did was get it down to 0.75 ppm. You need to do water changes until the ammonia readings are 0.25%. It may take a few larger ones to get that result. Then once it is low it should be easy to maintain.

Oh and a rainbow shark is far too large of a fish when adult sized to live in a 10 gallon tank.

 

[slinky]

Thanks guys!!! Glad to know what I'm reading isn't totally out of control. My primary concern was making sure that if there is ammonia, the ammo lock will detoxify it while the tank is a little unstable.

I will try to do a 20% water change twice daily, once in the AM and once in the PM. This way I can gradually remove the water without too much shock to the fish. It would seem that with ammo lock it's not so much of a problem now although there will be daily build up.

The flip side of doing very large water changes, let's say 50% or more, is that I'm told that the cycling won't happen as quickly and the bacteria I need won't develop as quickly. Am I better off doing the above and what seems logical?

Regarding the shark.... you're probably right. I'm wondering whether I should let him hang out until he gets too large or take him back immediately. I think I will and trade him in for another small bottom dweller. The question is what? Eventually I figure that I'm going to upgrade the 10 gallon to a 20 or 24 gallon in a few months, which is where I will stay for a long while. More than that will require many painful water changes. Any suggestions for my mollies and the fancy betta?

 

[rkilling1]

The flip side of doing very large water changes, let's say 50% or more, is that I'm told that the cycling won't happen as quickly and the bacteria I need won't develop as quickly. Am I better off doing the above and what seems logical?

The bacteria develops mostly in your filter, then all the surfaces of the aquarium. There is very little bacteria in the water column unless you have a bacteria bloom. ie the water has turned almost white.

And reguarding the shark, let alone being to big for that tank, it is also a very agressive species. It needs a lot of room or else it will just chase everything all the time.

 

[slinky]

OK guys... you convinced me about the shark. He was so adorable and cute and beautiful but that could change quickly. I ended up trading him in for an Albino Cory who is a baby but insanely active. He'll be great for cleaning up the tank and hopefully will get along with everyone else (seems like he bumps into everything.) Needs some prozac.

I did a 50% water change tonight and hopefully the ammonia, which was up to 1.5, will have been reduced. There was some ammo lock in there already and I added some Stress Coat in there. Meachem's Stability comes overnight tomorrow and all, hopefully, will be well. We are now at a full 4 days and the fish still seem happy. The 10 gallon hex tank provides these guys with just enough room for now and it seems that the fish enjoy doing vertical jumps, nosing their way up to the top of the tank and dropping down. Funniest is watching them ride to the top of the bubble stream from the air filter.

So far so good and thank so much for all your advice so far.

 

[zacusmaximus]

Dose Ammo-Lock or Prime (when you get it) every PWC. For PWCs during a cycle, it's treating not only the new water you're adding, but also the tank water that will have built-up ammonia and/or nitrite concentrations. The compounds in both products work by ionizing (binding) free ammonia (the toxic form of ammonia, NH3) into higher order NH4+ or ammonium. NH4+ is much less toxic to life but still available to the bacteria that you are attempting to cultivate during a cycle. The application of Ammo-Lock or Prime is only truly effective for 24 hours so reapplication (ideally in the form of frequent, small PWCs) during a cycle is crucial. Also, you can't easily overdose a tank with Ammo-lock or Prime. On another note, you'll find that Prime is much more concentrated than Ammo-Lock. It is usually the least expensive (and most effective, imho) treatment/dechlor product, based on treated volume.

Good move with the shark. They are lovely fish but a very large tank is needed to properly care for them once they've grown. Perhaps not until your cycle has completed, but your cory would probably appreciate some cory friends to hang out with. Is your betta a male or female?

Again, good luck with your new tank. I suppose it won't be long before you'll be shopping for more tanks. Please keep us posted!

 

[tkos]

Yes, grab another cpry to hang out with the one. When you upgrad in the future add 2-3 more cories at that point. Make sure also to get some sinking bottom dweller pellets. Flakes only aren't good enough.

 

[slinky]

Guys - thanks for your advice. So now I've decided to stick with 5 happy fish for a while in a taller 10 gallon hex tank. The only problem is the betta. I think he's in trouble, perhaps from ammonia spikes from the first two days. I was stupid and listened to the Petland people how the bacteria will spawn if you accelerate it, just add the fish in 24-48 hours. Yeah... right. I've been dealing with ammonia spikes like mad and using ammo lock 2 every water change.

I did a lot of water changes early to keep ammonia down but it kept building up to 1.0, sometimes higher and I lowered it quickly but it was tough. I'm not sure when I noticed that the betta had one gill that won't close. It stays hanging out there, permanently in the open "flared" position. Looks normal if the other one is flared but he can't close it. I've since isolated him the past few days in a 1 gallon mini tank, kept his ammonia at zero, gave him bettafix and some medication (antibiotic, general) but it doesn't seem to be working yet. It's been 3 full days and still no relief. He's got some special betta pellet food. Have any of you seen this kind of a betta problem? Is this something to seriously worry about or should I just bring him back - he is by far the most beautiful betta they have and a real survivor and fun fish.

 

[Big Ben]

You should really try to get some filter media, ideally sponge or floss, from an established and cycled aquarium and put this into your filter. If you lived in my city I would tell you to come by and get some. This wil shorten the time it takes to cycle your tank and will save you alot of headaches.

I would avoid the ammolock just because itll screw up your ammonia readings and you wont know whats really going on in the tank. You can get rid of the ammonia more fast and accurately through 50% water changes whenever it gets too high. The fish you have are decently hardy. That being said I would still advise you to change 50% of the water whenever the ammonia reaches 0.5 ppm. Same for nirite.

I know im sort of repeating that last paragraph, but I know when I started out, it helped to hear it in a variety of ways.

I would make a post in the unhealthy fish forum.