Cycle check plz?

[Reedy]

Would be very appreciative if someone could mull across my readings and reassure that things seem to be progressing normally?

I have the Fluval Edge 23L with standard filter / Led's and a 'Mod Led' for my plants - I set this up over 2 weeks ago (Friday this week would make it 3) However, I was messing around with my planting, waiting for test kits, Ammonia ect, that I didn't even 'dose' until last week on Friday. During the 2 weeks before ammonia dosing, I threw in a few fish flakes every other day (not even that) which took me to a reading of 0.1ppm. Used the calculator on 7th March to take up to 4ppm ammonia - Here's my result so far. Would really appreciate a response to put my mind at rest and let me know I'm on the right track?
Ph Start 6.8
Nitrates in tap water 10ppm
No other readings from tap water
'Kleen Off Ammonia' 9.5%
7th March - Amm dose to 3ppm
8th - Amm dose to 4ppm @ 9am
9th - Amm 3ppm, NitrIte 0 @ 8.45am
10th - Amm 2ppm, NirtrIte 0 @ 8.30am
11th - Amm 2ppm, NitrIte 0 @ 9.15am
12th - Amm 2ppm, NitrIte 0.25ppm @ 9am
13th - Amm 1ppm, NitrIte 2ppm, NitrAte 30ppm, PH 7 @ 8.30 - Dosed back to 4ppm.
I haven't tested new parameters yet until the morning and was a bit hesitant to dose back to 4ppm for fear of tomorrows reading being off the scale! but figured I could carry out a water change in the morn if necessary..

Iv'e driven myself CRAZY with all the research and differencing of opinion on what level to dose (small tank really) but thought sod it! and stuck with Eco's method after reading lots on this forum (where's he disappeared to? lol) Anyway, I'm here in the Uk just wanting someone experienced to reassure me things are on track...for now

Thanks Muchly
Trace

 

[venymae]

I'd say it looks good. Ammo is going down, nitrites are there, nitrAtes are there too. Just keeep swimming!

 

[Reedy]

Ummm..what now? lol

Thanks Venymae, very much appreciated

Ok, here's my result this morning! what now? lol my head has gone into 'block' mode, I can't think rationally, sorry!

Tested 9.15 am - I dosed back to 4ppm Ammonia at 12oclock (midday) yesterday afternoon..

Amm 1ppm! thats munched through 3ppm in less than 12 hours! (I only have carpet plants( Micranthemum Monte Carlo) if thats how you spell it, Dwarf sag and Christmas Moss attached to my Mopani wood tree. I wouldn't call it densely planted
NitrIte 5ppm
NitrAte 80>160ppm!! its not at 80 (darker) and not quite at 160ppm (lighter)
Ph 6.8
Should I do that 50% water change to bring those back inline and re-dose to 4ppm Amm OR...re-dose to 4ppm now with no water change and let the NitRite/Trates spike? dunno what to do for the best..help plzzzzzzzz

Trace xx

 

[Reedy]

Ok, I've calmed down slightly! I'm going to ride out the NitrI/TrAtes - I know this happens and is normal.. I'll only be dosing 2/3ppm Ammonia - If those TrItes/TrAtes stay at higher levels for at least 5/7 days, then 'Ill do the water changes to bring them down....

 

[LudicrouSpeed]

I'm a fry to this myself, and I had a big freak out when the lady at the PetSmart who tested my water said it was so toxic she was surprised anything was alive in there. The advice I keep getting on AA (Aquarium Advice) is that while cycling (or in general) doing frequent large water changes is actually a good thing as long as the water you're putting in isn't as bad. The bacteria live in the filter, the ornaments, the gravel, and only trace bits in the water; so don't stress over doing too many water changes.

 

[threnjen]

Reedy you are doing excellent.
LudicrouSpeed it sounds like you were doing fish-in? Don't worry about water changes when you are fishless.

Reedy pulverize with your fingers a few flakes of fish food into the water to add some phosphorous so you don't stall.

 

[LudicrouSpeed]

Yes. Fish-in... because I didn't know any better.

Would doing frequent water changes during a Fishless be detrimental?

 

[threnjen]

Yes. Fish-in... because I didn't know any better.

Would doing frequent water changes during a Fishless be detrimental?

I would call it unnecessary. Detrimental would be a strong word, but there is no motivation in fishless to have your levels low, so it would just be extra work to be doing them all the time. I pick fishless because I DON'T want to change water every day like with fish-in.
If your source water is very hard, it is probably not necessary at all.
If source water is very soft, 1 or 2 changes during the cycle is probably called for.

However this isn't for the reason that people say "to get your nitrites down to readable levels"; it's to replenish trace phosphorous which the bacteria need. You can accomplish the same thing by adding a smidge of fish flake which contains phosphorous, so I don't do any water changes during a fishless.

 

[Reedy]

Thank you so much everyone. I very much appreciate your time

Dosed to 3ppm at 3pm and just added a pinch of food as suggested (thanks therenjen)

I would like to continue my daily 'status' updates on my cycle, in the hope it can help lots of others on here and put their mind at rest (we all know the first time is a mind boggle with lots of conflicting info!) I'm just thankful I have a very understanding husband( well........no understanding of the chemistry involved - he wants no part of that!!)and a great forum

Patience is a virtue.......they're not kidding right?

 

[venymae]

glad you're on track!

 

[Reedy]

Morning people

Here's my result this morning
15th March
Ammo 0.5 -0.10 guess (slightly off yellow)
NitrIte - way way WAY above testing scale (I'm using API Master) as the drops INSTANTLY turned purple when added and did not match any colour on the scale...not even close! More like a cerise pink/purple
NitrAte - still 80 <> 160
PH 6.6!!!!! Clearly DROPPED, so, I initiated the 50% water change to bring this level up! I'm not really interested in the high NitrItes/TrAtes as this is a fishless cycle and and a PH CRASH is not something I want to head for
(i have some tetra strips too but only use these for making sure I have added enough water conditioner and interestingly took a look at my values. I know these are not accurate per say, but;
GH 8od
KH 3od
Trites wayyyy above 10
TrAtes wayyyyy above 250!!!

AFTER 50% water change (making sure to turn the pump/heater off then BACK ON AGAIN once changed)
Ammo - Dosed to 3ppm
TrItes - still above 5 but not as deep purple
TrAtes still 80 <> 160 but closer to 80 this time
PH - 7.6!!!!

Temp dropped to 77 from 80 during that change but I assume thats ok...

That'll do me for now
Just as a matter of interest, the Fluval Edge I have is all enclosed (glass) apart from a poxy opening at the top. I have deliberately left about 1cm from the top so the filter water creates as much oxygen as poss

 

[Supergummy]

Your on track!

 

[Reedy]

I hope so..

Just wanted to point out my PH reading of 7.6... (from normal 6.8) is the conditioned TAP WATER PH level...I was a bit freaked at the rise, considering I gave the tank an hour to circulate before taking new readings, then I remembered, my FIRST PH test for tap water was left for 24hrs before a reading..

As you can imagine, I had some questions??
Would a large PWC be detrimental once I have fish in there, considering such a high fluctuation?
Should I prepare any new conditioned water 24hrs before, to at least let the 'actual' PH settle?

Thanks in advance

Trace

 

[threnjen]

Nope, your tank pH is not going to be plummeting/waffling like this when you are done cycling. However it might be worth your while to get the API gH/kH test because the kH test is going to tell you (and us) how stable your pH will be once your tank is cycled. It's a very good idea to have a kH of at least 3 in order to keep the pH stable with water changes.

Some people do let their water "age" to be true pH. I think that although they are in the minority, they are being safer than "the rest of us" (I just change with tap and so do most people)

 

[Reedy]

Thanks therenjen, as always, much appreciated

I'll take a sample to my LFS (local fish shop) to perform a more extensive test for me You've put my mind at rest, again!

Here's my result this morning

Amm - 0ppm @ 9.15am
NtrIte - still above 5ppm as solution turning to purple immediately when adding drops
NtrAte - still between 80<>160ppm
PH - 6.8

Dosed back to 3ppm Ammonia - please note, I'm using 'Kleen Off Household' Ammonia, which is 9.5%, so, using the calculator and taking into account my decor/rocks ect (23L is 6 Gallon for the Fluval Edge) I based this at 20.5 Litres, which gave me 0.74Ml.

I'm thinking, if I get Ammonia a 0 for 2 consecutive days (24Hrs) should I lower my dosage? say to 2ppm? It's just, I'm aware that all that Ammonia will create % percentages on the other results and again, I read this somewhere! OMG, I don't know whether to be thankful for the internet.....Anyone else do this?

Thanks for reading xx

 

[threnjen]

I personally recommend going to a half dose of ammonia every 3-4 days once you see nitrites. It makes it a lot easier to finish like a stall.

 

[Reedy]

Thanks, threngen.

As always, you're a star

I'll try that....

xx

 

[Reedy]

I just read this....so, no more ammonia dosing for me. My NitrItes/TrAtes are sky high... Will keep you all posted!

I was helping another member a few months ago, with almost identical readings as yours. We kept re dosing tank back up to 2-3PPM when Ammonia got to zero, Ammonia was quickly being consumed, but the Nitrites would not come down. Basically the Nitrite consuming bacteria could not keep up.

I was scratching my head for about 5 days, wondering why the Nitrites wouldn't budge. In the end I got help from Snowman, and we did as set out below.

We let tank sit at zero Ammonia for a day or so and then suddenly Nitrites started to be consumed and then Nitrates rose. Once Nitrites were gone, which only took another day or two, we did a water change to get Nitrates down to about 10PPM. All this time no Ammonia was added.

We then dosed tank back to .5PPm Ammonia as a test and waited.
Within 24 hours, Ammonia was gone no Nitrites and Nitrates raised to 20PPM. So basically done.

If you think about it, 3PPM ammonia is a huge number. You would need a lot of fish to get this level in a tank. So we basically go to all the trouble of getting a huge bio load of good bacteria in filter and gravel, probably 2-3 times bio load needed to handle a fully stocked tank. We then go and add 6 Neons because we are cautious. The Neons produce probably a tenth of the Ammonia that your good bacteria has become accustomed to consuming. Then with so little Ammonia, some of the Ammonia converting bacteria that you have worked so hard to grow actually die off due to starvation. You may actually see a bloom in water due to these bacteria dying off.

In a nutshell, you only need to initially grow enough good bacteria to handle your first tank stocking.

 

[Reedy]

Hi all

So this is where I'm at...
FROM 16th March 24hrs after dosing to 3ppm
17h March
Amm - 0
TrAtes - 80<>160
PH - 6.8
NO DOSE OF AMMONIA
18th March
Amm - obviously 0
TrItes - still over 5ppm, BUT looks as though it's coming down as the solution didn't immediately turn, say 5 seconds later..hmmm we'll see
TrAtes 80<>160...
PH 6.8
NO DOSE OF AMMONIA - so will test tomorrow A.M and see results. I don't know whether to hold my nerve until 20th March before a small dose of 1PPM Ammonia OR maybe another test tomorrow eve and dose then....decisions, decisions...

Bye for now
Trace x

 

[Reedy]

OMG!!!!

Just out of curiosity, I just tested my NitItes AGAIN 12hrs later - they are down to 2PPM!! I'm dancing around like a loon!! I hope this works! If they're gone by the morning (or when they're gone) I'll dose 1ppm ammonia - just because I won't have time in the morning to do a water change - but I'm thinking I'll keep it ticking over until Friday..!!