Cycle not appearing to start..

[rsam]

Long story….

I have a 20 gallon community tank setup this summer; about 4 weeks ago I pick up a used 45 gallon to start a tank around roselines with live plants. The plan was to setup the tank and then proceed with a fishless cycle…

About the same time I get a call from my brother in law to come see their new 10 gallon tank which they had populated right away with 6 Zebra Danio’s, 5 Tiger barbs (2 died) and 3 Odessa barbs. I went there and explained the fishin cycle and tested the water to find the Ammonia through the roof. About 4 days later I get a call to come get the tank and fish before he flushes them, so now I have another (overly crowded) tank to manage through a cycle. To reduce the crowd in the 10 gallon and ease the stress I eventaully decided to move the 6 Zebra Danio’s in to my 45 gal and do a fishin cycle. The 10 gallon has since stabilized (alot of pwc every day, sometime twice) and the fish are responding. The cycle is in its final stage waiting for Nitrite to drop. Once cycle complete Ill figure out what to do with the barbs…

Now to my 45 gallon tank… I have had it running for over a week and I am not getting any readings of ammonia or nitrate. The tank consists of…

6 Danio – feeding them flakes once a day
Live plants (3 bunches of Amazon Swords, Java fern, 2 anublas nana and Dragon something), most of these were on sale at the LFS.
Lava rocks
Fluorite substrate
And some drift woods

Here are the readings I have gotten.
Date/pH/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate
Nov 26/ 7.8(h)/ 0/ 0/ 5
Nov 27/ 7.8(h)/ 0/ 0/ 5
Nov 28/ 7.6/ 0/ 0/ 5
Nov 29/ 7.8(h)/ 0/ 0/ 5
Nov 30/ 7.8(h)/ 0/ 0/ 5

Date/ammonia/nitrite (stopped testing for pH and nitrate)
Dec 1/ 0/ 0
Dec 2/ 0/ 0/
Dec 3/ 0/ 0/

Are the plants absorbing the ammonia and not letting the cycle to start up? Is there anything I can do to start up the cycle or just continue to be patience and let it do its thing? I was hoping to see some results by now

Thanks

Rick

 

[Mrs.h2012]

Long story….

I have a 20 gallon community tank setup this summer; about 4 weeks ago I pick up a used 45 gallon to start a tank around roselines with live plants. The plan was to setup the tank and then proceed with a fishless cycle…

About the same time I get a call from my brother in law to come see their new 10 gallon tank which they had populated right away with 6 Zebra Danio’s, 5 Tiger barbs (2 died) and 3 Odessa barbs. I went there and explained the fishin cycle and tested the water to find the Ammonia through the roof. About 4 days later I get a call to come get the tank and fish before he flushes them, so now I have another (overly crowded) tank to manage through a cycle. To reduce the crowd in the 10 gallon and ease the stress I eventaully decided to move the 6 Zebra Danio’s in to my 45 gal and do a fishin cycle. The 10 gallon has since stabilized (alot of pwc every day, sometime twice) and the fish are responding. The cycle is in its final stage waiting for Nitrite to drop. Once cycle complete Ill figure out what to do with the barbs…

Now to my 45 gallon tank… I have had it running for over a week and I am not getting any readings of ammonia or nitrate. The tank consists of…

6 Danio – feeding them flakes once a day
Live plants (3 bunches of Amazon Swords, Java fern, 2 anublas nana and Dragon something), most of these were on sale at the LFS.
Lava rocks
Fluorite substrate
And some drift woods

Here are the readings I have gotten.
Date/pH/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate
Nov 26/ 7.8(h)/ 0/ 0/ 5
Nov 27/ 7.8(h)/ 0/ 0/ 5
Nov 28/ 7.6/ 0/ 0/ 5
Nov 29/ 7.8(h)/ 0/ 0/ 5
Nov 30/ 7.8(h)/ 0/ 0/ 5

Date/ammonia/nitrite (stopped testing for pH and nitrate)
Dec 1/ 0/ 0
Dec 2/ 0/ 0/
Dec 3/ 0/ 0/

Are the plants absorbing the ammonia and not letting the cycle to start up? Is there anything I can do to start up the cycle or just continue to be patience and let it do its thing? I was hoping to see some results by now

Thanks

Rick

I'm by no means an expert but I'm learning for sure and feel I'm more than a newbie by now, so
I'll give you my opinion and let others correct me where I'm wrong first off, good move on moving the 6 zebra danios, as you saw that helped the 10g a Ton- the reasoning- even though it doesn't seem like it a 10g is actually pretty small in the aquarium world, so toxins build up a lot quicker, and even quicker when it's over stocked. Ive read that a food guideline for fishin cycles is to use 1 fish per 10g in the tank, but if you plan on cycling with a school it makes
more sense to go ahead and get atleast 5. Even though a fishless cycle doesn't apply to you really, I've read that planted tanks help any tank cycle faster, so I think that could be why your 45 is showing cycled readings already. It's possible that it has cycled since you have live plants, those are cycled readings you are getting and they seem very consistent. Now a question for you... Did you happen to put any of the filter media from the 10g you were given intone filter you have on your 45g?

 

[rsam]

Thanks for your response Mrs.h2012, no i didnt take any filter media from the 10gal because since it has/had not cycled yet, I didn't want to risk causing the 10gal to go back a step in the cycle process.

I didn't think a tank could be cycled without any ammonia or nitrite being present for the bacteria to feed on and grow...

Thanks
Rick

 

[Mrs.h2012]

Thanks for your response Mrs.h2012, no i didnt take any filter media from the 10gal because since it has/had not cycled yet, I didn't want to risk causing the 10gal to go back a step in the cycle process.

I didn't think a tank could be cycled without any ammonia or nitrite being present for the bacteria to feed on and grow...

Thanks
Rick

Fish waste is basically ammonia, as well as fish food. So yes you've had an ammonia source. The BB (beneficial bacteria) only needs ammonia as food, the BB eats the ammonia, turns it into nitrite and eventually turns it into nitrate. And that was a dumb question on my part, I completely looked over the fact you still had fish in the 10g, my apologies! I would say that if your 45 continues to give you cycled readings like this consistently, I would move the barbs in the 10 to your 45 as well as either moving the entire filter over to your 45 (this will give you more filtration but not necessarily more BB, learned this today actually!) or you could take the media out of your 10 and add it to the media in your 45 so it helps support the barbs bioload. And one thing I have found that has helped me avoid a mini cycle when adding fish (I did fish in cycles) is to see if you can score some filter media from a healthy tank from LFS, or even a friend that has a healthy well established tank(s).

 

[fishguru]

another option that works well is quickstart by tetramin. Thatll give you the stuff you are lacking.

 

[rsam]

Fish waste is basically ammonia, as well as fish food. So yes you've had an ammonia source. The BB (beneficial bacteria) only needs ammonia as food, the BB eats the ammonia, turns it into nitrite and eventually turns it into nitrate. And that was a dumb question on my part, I completely looked over the fact you still had fish in the 10g, my apologies! I would say that if your 45 continues to give you cycled readings like this consistently, I would move the barbs in the 10 to your 45 as well as either moving the entire filter over to your 45 (this will give you more filtration but not necessarily more BB, learned this today actually!) or you could take the media out of your 10 and add it to the media in your 45 so it helps support the barbs bioload. And one thing I have found that has helped me avoid a mini cycle when adding fish (I did fish in cycles) is to see if you can score some filter media from a healthy tank from LFS, or even a friend that has a healthy well established tank(s).

Hmmm, I did not think of doing that, but shouldnt I wait for the 10 gal tank to fully cycle first? I tired getting some filter media from the LFS but unfortunately all they could/would offer was some "cultured" water. I don't have 8 buckets to transport the water home....

 

[jlk]

Your 45g hasnt started the cycle process yet. I suspect because you only have a few small fish in there and your feeding them very sparsely, there just hasnt been a detectable amount of ammonia built up yet. Yes, the plants are likely helping with this well but it would depend on how heavily your planted. A few plants will have little effect while a 90+% planted tank would have an appreciable effect.

Can you please test your tap water for ammonia, nitrite & nitrate and let us know what these read? I suspect the nitrate in the 45g is from your tap.

 

[jlk]

Hmmm, I did not think of doing that, but shouldnt I wait for the 10 gal tank to fully cycle first? I tired getting some filter media from the LFS but unfortunately all they could/would offer was some "cultured" water. I don't have 8 buckets to transport the water home....

Dont touch the 10g- its cycling well at its own pace and removing any media at this point would be detrimental to the cycle. There is no such such as 'cycled' water- the only thing you will be likely introducing if you added this water would be possible pathogens and disease. If you dont know know anyone with a healthy, cycled tank/pond that can donate some media, you can consiuder buying some cycled sponge filter media from Angelsplus if your in the US (http://www.angelsplus.com/FiltersSponge.htm). Please ask if you have any questions!

 

[rsam]

Your 45g hasnt started the cycle process yet. I suspect because you only have a few small fish in there and your feeding them very sparsely, there just hasnt been a detectable amount of ammonia built up yet. Yes, the plants are likely helping with this well but it would depend on how heavily your planted. A few plants will have little effect while a 90+% planted tank would have an appreciable effect.

Can you please test your tap water for ammonia, nitrite & nitrate and let us know what these read? I suspect the nitrate in the 45g is from your tap.

Ill test the water from my tap when I get home tonight and post the results.

To get the ammonia built up should I increase the number of fish currently in the tank and/or feed them twice a day? I dont want to over feed them either. I have some plants, wouldnt say anywhere close to 90%.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[rsam]

Dont touch the 10g- its cycling well at its own pace and removing any media at this point would be detrimental to the cycle. There is no such such as 'cycled' water- the only thing you will be likely introducing if you added this water would be possible pathogens and disease. If you dont know know anyone with a healthy, cycled tank/pond that can donate some media, you can consiuder buying some cycled sponge filter media from Angelsplus if your in the US (Aquarium Sponge Filters). Please ask if you have any questions!

Unforuntately I live in Toronto Canada, otherwise I would definitly get some of those filter sponges...

 

[jlk]

I would just start by feeding them 2x a day- there shouldnt be any leftover food . Just keep testing daily and see if the ammonia starts to spike at all over the next week. If it doesnt after a week or so, then you can consider adding a few more fish (dont go crazy!). Its always best to stock slowly and conservatively in a fish-in cycling tank to avoid high spikes in toxins and crazy water changes.