Cycle question...

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shawmutt

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Dec 21, 2002
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Greencastle, PA
OK, I'm confused...The fish (or the aquarium owner) is the source of ammonia, the nitrites eat the ammonia, the nitrAtes eat the nitrItes...who eats the nitrAtes? The reason that I ask is that my nitrAtes are at 20 ppm already, but my ammonia is going from 5 to 1 ppm in 24 hours (but not zero) and my nitrItes have spiked to 2 ppm...should I do a water change now or wait? Should I stop adding ammonia? It's been 10 days now. LOL should I stop asking the same question every day?

On a side note: How are nitrAtes removed in nature?
 
Heh nothing eats the nitrates cept plants (think fertilizers). Is why regular water changes are recommended; to keep the nitrate levels from getting too high (like over 40 ppm in a FW tank). Its why Florida is having such a prob with the Everglades; too much nitrogenous waste coming in from farms and waste water...its killing the aquatic life out there and the plants can't deal with the load. Keep in mind (yes I'm being pedantic here LOL) the nitrites don't eat ammonia, its a type of nitrifying bacteria which eats it and produces nitrites. Similarly, a diff type of nitrifying bacteria eats nitrites and produces nitrates. The EPA has a brief article on em here: http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/contaminants/dw_contamfs/nitrates.html

I forget; are you fishless cycling? If so, I'd slightly reduce the levels of ammonia added and let the colony of bacteria you have now stabilise.
 
Nitrites don't eat ammonia, they are the waste produced by the bacteria that eat the ammonia. Then you "should" have no ammonia and a decent amount of nitrites. That is when you start growing the second set of bacteria that eat nitrites and their waste product is nitrate, which you personally remove as the final step in the waste removal system that is a cycled tank. You refer to nitrates twice in the post so I am assuming one of those values is nitrites, but, no matter really. If you are doing fishless, keep your ammonia at 5ppm with no water change, as the only reason to do a water change during cycling is if you have to protect fish. Fishless can go quicker because you don't have to worry about keeping the nitrites down. This sounds like a slightly hinky cycle, but the good news is that I think you will find yourself cycled here pretty soon, like in the next week. Speedy, if you ask me. Someone please step in here if I have not explained properly :D
 
Ack...couldn't more than one letter be different in nitrates and nitrites? :roll: It would be far less confusing. I edited my previous post to reflect the correct information. And yes I am doing fishless.

Hmmm...so what your saying is: The fish eat the food and poop the ammonia, one bacteria eats the ammonia and poops the nitrItes, and another bacteria eats the nitrItes and poops the nitrAtes. So basically my fishtank is one big pooping factory? Ewww...I don't think I want a fishtank anymore :lol: .

:oops: why am I so corny?
 
LOL well, now that you put it that way yes, its a poo factory LOL

You could also look at it as a living chemistry experiment ;)
 
It is an extremely efficient waste management system! Your "garbage" that you, as chief maintenance man are responsible for, is the very benign, practically odorless nitrAte accumulation. Not bad! Plus, you dump that nitrate rich water into your houseplant pots and they will really love you! Same for your garden outside. Waste not, want not....
 
Nitrosomonas Bacteria process ammonium/ammonia NH4/NH3 and oxygen to Nitrite, Nitrobacter Bacteria process nitrites NO2 with oxygen to Nitrates, the disolved nitrates are much less toxic, but differant types of fishes differ in there tolerance to nitrate levels.
 
Actually Terry, recent studies seem to show Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter have less to do with the nitrogen cycle then previously thought. Most of the case studies are linked on the www.marineland.com website, but I'm unable to access that site atm. You can also find some of the studies here: http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1998/mar/science/default.asp , here: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=124703 and here: http://aslo.org/phd/dialog/1998January-14.html

The results of all this research was the basis for Bio-Spira, Marineland's bacterial fish tank starter. Amazing stuff; actually works (speaking from personal experience).
 
I do appolagise if i am misleading, but this was something that i read from a while back. maybe i should read more books it seems i am abit behind times.
 
Heh no need for apologies Terry. I also was under the impression the nitrifying bacteria was nitrosomonas and nitrobacter until very recently. Is neat to see the changes with new research (and in this case explains why other bacterial starters are so often unsuccessful).
 
I have no excuse, i should keep up with thing being a manager of an aquarium store hahahahah.
I will defiantly have a look at the links you posted earlier.
Thankyou.
 
I have just had a quick sneak preview of them articles, well what can i say. When i looked, we are now talking about the cloneing of bacteria. Time to start re-studying i think. Thanks for the articles i will enjoy reading them.
 
Seems like we are only a few years away from the instant cycling of new tanks! Bio Spira has been well received by this community unlike the other products such as Stress Zyme & Cycle. It will be nice once they refine Bio Spira to make it more potent and able to withstand higher temperatures. Just a matter of time I suspect. :)
 
do you mean my cycle in my tank? If so, why? I'm just paraniod
Just that it is not textbook, (meaning, no ammonia and no nitrItes before you get nitrAtes) but if you look at threads about cycling experiences you will see that this does happen. Don't worry a bit about it! Especially since you are doing fishless, you just have to wait a little while and it will sort itself out provided you continue to supply the ammonia. That is key to keeping the bacteria fed.
 
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