Cycling Drama

[Ryan87500]

I wanted to see if I can get some advice on my cycling problems. I started about three weeks ago with seeded material from a memer of the forum. I placed it in the tank and added 4 ppm of Ace Hardware Ammonia. The ammonia never decreased after about 1.5 - 2 weeks. So I figured mabye the sponge didn't have enough bacteria or something caused it to die.

I then took some biomax from a turtle tank. I didn't test that water to see if it was cycled or anything but the turtle has been alive for probably 10 years in that tank.

I also took a big zip lock bag full of water to transport it home. I put the biomax in my filter and the bag of water in my tank. Later that day I was getting some Nitrited and Nitrates but not sure if because of conversion or there was some in the bag of water I took.

It has been a few days and my ammonia doesn't really seem to fluctuate at all, I dosed it to around 2ppm and have planted a few fungle val plants. (additional information. After dosing up to 4ppm I did a water change after about 1.5 weeks to try and see if it would start the cycle and didn't dose up again)

Am I doing something wrong here? Not sure why seeded material isn't working for me.

Here are my API test results

I read it as follows (and I might be off on my reading so attaching pictures)

Ph - 8.2
Ammonia - 2
Nitrite - between 2 and 5
Nitrate - betweeen 40 and 80.

One picture is with flash and one is without.

 

[Masha]

Sorry - am a little confused by your post.
You say you dosed ammonia up to 4ppm and haven't seen any change, but later on you say you dose it to 2ppm?
What made it drop?

How much water did you add, from the turtle tank? What percentage of the tank? I suppose it's possible the nitrates came from that, but that seems very high. Do you know what the nitrite/nitrate level is in that tank?

 

[Ryan87500]

Sorry I had it dosed up to 4ppm but read somewhere that sometimes a water change might help with a stalled cycle so I did a water change and now have about 2ppm based on my reading of the test.

The turtle tank is a 20 gallon long tank but at most 1/2 full so maybe 10 gallons, I took probably a quarter or two out of there I am guessing. I have no idea what the levels are in that tank what be in that area to test it again for awhile.

 

[Masha]

Okay so for this present set of tests, 24 hours before, you'd added 2ppm of ammonia, and about maybe half a gallon of water from the other tank, is that correct? Edit: sorry I should have said "the ammonia level was at 2ppm" not "you added 2ppm of ammonia"

Did you test for nitrates and nitrites in this tank before adding the water - I'm assuming they were 0, but do you know that?

It seems very unlikely to me that the nitrites & nitrates could be that high from adding just half a gallon of water from the turtle tank unless the nitrite and nitrate levels in the other tank were extremely high. But I see now that you don't say how big this tank is that you are cycling. (Unless I just missed reading it!)

So my questions would be:
How big is this tank you are cycling?
Have you tested for nitrites and nitrates before adding the turtle tank water?

 

[Ryan87500]

Okay so for this present set of tests, 24 hours before, you'd added 2ppm of ammonia, and about maybe half a gallon of water from the other tank, is that correct?

Did you test for nitrates and nitrites in this tank before adding the water - I'm assuming they were 0, but do you know that?

It seems very unlikely to me that the nitrites & nitrates could be that high from adding just half a gallon of water from the turtle tank unless the nitrite and nitrate levels in the other tank were extremely high. But I see now that you don't say how big this tank is that you are cycling. (Unless I just missed reading it!)

So my questions would be:
How big is this tank you are cycling?
Have you tested for nitrites and nitrates before adding the turtle tank water?

My current tank is a 36 gallon bow front tank. Unfortunately I didn't think about testing immediate before adding, but have been testing very frequently and never had anything signs of Nitrates or Nitrites before adding the water and biomax.

If it helps I can retest my water in 24-48 hours and post a similar picture to see if there is any change.

 

[Masha]

If the tank was at 2ppm ammonia in 36 gallons, and there was no drop in that ammonia level at all, the nitrites and nitrates must have come from the turtle tank water or from the biomax you added. But if you only added about a quart or two of water, that seems really unlikely to me, so I'm not sure what's going on. The nitrite and nitrate levels in the turtle tank water and biomax would have to be really high.

I think you need to get rid of some variables here.
Do a big water change to reduce the nitrites (you probably need to do that anyway)
After the water change, test how much ammonia, nitrites and nitrate there is, and dose until the tank is back to 2ppm ammonia. You probably need to test for ammonia again to make double sure the level is 2ppm.

Then after 24 hour, test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates again. No need to post the picture really, unless you feel very uncertain of your reading of the tests If there's any change in those numbers, that probably means you've got some bacteria processing the ammonia and nitrites.

 

[Ryan87500]

Thanks I took your advice and did about a 60% water change and dosed it with 5ml of prime. It looks like I definately brought my readings down. I also added 1 ml of ace hardware of Ammonia to bring my level of ammonia back up.

If I am reading the chart right I would say my Nitrate is about 20ppm and my nitrite is about 1-2ppm. Maybe closer to 2ppm.

The picture is post water change pre ammonia dosing.

I will report back in the next 24-48 hours.

 

[Masha]

Good luck

 

[Mebbid]

How long has this cycle been going?

Also, adding water from an existing tank doesn't do much. The amount of free floating nitrifying bacteria is miniscule in comparison to what is found on filter media.

How did you get the cycled filter media? How much of it did you add?

 

[Ryan87500]

It has been a few weeks. I took two bags of biomax from a 110 aquaclear and put them both in my 50 aquaclear. I transported it in the bag of tank water to make sure it wouldn't dry out.

It looks like my ammonia is slowly going down and my nitrite and nitrate are both high again as in off the chart.

So it looks like something is happening just seems strange I don't see ammonia drop to zero.

I will wait another 24 hours.


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[Masha]

Sounds like you have some bacteria then, probably of both the kinds you need, ammonia > Nitrite and Nitrite> Nitrate. Just not enough yet. Keep going

 

[Ryan87500]

Is it recommended to do large water changes to bring nitrites down?


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[Masha]

Yes. Most guides I've seen recommend this, as it's possible that the nitrite processing bacteria don't do so well if the nitrite levels are too high. I have no idea if it's true, but this is the method I followed when I cycled my tank, and I've seen a lot of people on this forum report success with it as well.

Be prepared it can take ENORMOUS and repeated water changes to get the nitrites down into a readable range. This is one of the reasons people recommend dosing a bit lower than 4ppm ammonia, as that makes the nitrite spikes not quite so bad.

 

[Ryan87500]

I did about a 75% water change and was still at around 2-5 ppm. I assume no risk in daily water changes to keep it down then.

Amazing how concentrated it must be to require such large changes.




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[Masha]

That sounds perfectly normal Yes, no risk in daily water changes during a cycle as long as you remember to dechlorinate the water you add, and don't forget the heater off like I did, which slows things down a bit.
I had to do about three 70% + changes to get things down to a readable range. I think the reason might be that nitrite is so dangerous, even a small amount damages fish, so that test is pretty sensitive. No idea! Only guessing

I've seen some people on here give the ratio of how much ammonia converts to how much nitrite, but can't remember it myself now.

 

[Ryan87500]

I guess it makes sense that seeded material from a turtle tank with maybe 5 gallons of water is showing some signs of ammonia and nitrite conversion just not enough for my 36 gallons.



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