Cycling problems

[Sahabo]

My tank has been set up since 3/13/08. I bought my betta and tank on the same day...listened to LFS instead of doing my own research . I've been trying to establish a cycle ever since. I thought things were progressing. I tested for ammonia daily and did pwc's as needed. So far, I've never seen any traces of nitrItes. But my tank is still not cycled. I did a 25% pwc yesterday, and 24hrs later I'm reading .25 ammonia reading. I haven't changed food, and I only feed him about 5 pellets a day. I watch him eat, and never see left over food.

There have been two recent changes to the tank. First, I took out the sponge filter while treating my betta with meds for finrot. I kept the filter in old tank water in the fridge and put in a few pellets every so often in an attempt to keep good bacteria alive. After two courses of meds, I squeezed out the filter and returned it to the tank.

The other change: Just before returning the filter to the tank, I did a large water change. I had run out of AmQuel and, having heard so many great things about Prime here, I decided to make the switch. So I used Prime for the first time.

I've been testing every day for ammonia and nitrIte, and it seems to me that the ammonia levels are higher faster than they have ever been. Still no signs of nitrIte. Is this due to the Prime or did I mess up my cycle by taking out the sponge filter? OR, is this finally the ammonia spike that tells me I'll be seeing nirtrItes soon and my tank is actually cycling??

Being on a strict budget, I have not been able purchase nitrAte test, but I plan to take a sample into the LFS this week to get the water tested.

My betta is not showing any signs of distress and seems healthy.

Any thoughts?

 

[neilanh]

It is possible that the bacteria on the sponge did not survive the fridge trip. I've heard of people having success in doing that, but don't buy into it personally.

In addition, as your tank ages, any leftover food or waste that doesn't get filtered up will slowly decompose, and add to your load as well.

Either or both of those things are probably what's contributing to your increased ammonia rate.

Keep up what you're doing, it sounds like you're doing all the right things. It can take months (up to 6) to cycle with fish.

It might be quicker to find temporary storage for your betta, and do a real fishless cycle in the main tank.

 

[krustykrab99]

don't fret it too much bettas are used to not having filters or airated water. they come from puddles with no current. they breathe air most of the time. He should do well in your tank. but i think the antibiotics for finrot also killed a lot of the bacteria in the filter which should rebound with no problem for the betta.

 

[Sahabo]

don't fret it too much bettas are used to not having filters or airated water. they come from puddles with no current. they breathe air most of the time. He should do well in your tank. but i think the antibiotics for finrot also killed a lot of the bacteria in the filter which should rebound with no problem for the betta.

Thanks for the reply, but I believe that wild bettas are found in ponds, sluggish streams and rice paddies of Thailand and Cambodia, not puddles. I think that bettas have been subjected to a lot of abuse, poor care and lives in pint sized bowls because people believe that bettas can survive anything. But I want my betta to thrive and be healthy for as long as possible, hence filters and proper tank cycling. And I am sure there must be a difference between wild bettas 'toughness' and the bred, domesticated ones sold in pet stores. sorry, I'll get off my now!

You're right that they don't like strong currents, which is why I had a sponge filter with a very low air flow. And the bacteria was not killed by the meds, because I took the filter out during treatment. Although neilanh was probably correct saying that the bacteria did not survive the fridge.

I certainly might consider your suggestion, neilanh, to temporarily house my betta while doing a fishless cycle in the main tank. Not sure what I would use to store him though.

 

[An t-iasg]

I remember having bettas in non-planted tanks and it was a little tank, but it did show ammonia readings for a few weeks. I used Bio-Spira on a few new tanks, and it worked over a period of a few days, not instantly. On day 1, the ammonia level went to 0, and on day 2, the nitrite level went to 0, and then on day 3 I had some nitrates. Or you could go to an lfs you trust and ask them to fill a plastic fish bag with some tank water and squeeze some of their filter media in it. I did this once and I went home with a bag full of brown dirty water! My lfs squeezed some media from a goldfish tank for me. Goldfish require heavy filtration so I know there was good bacteria in that bag. I squeezed my sponge filter in the bag of dirty water and poured just a little bit of the water into the tank. By the next day I had 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites.

The suggestion to temporarily house the betta elsewhere while you do a fishless cycle is a good one. It will definitely work to cycle your tank and get it over the hump. But in your case, I would try Bio-Spira or squeezed media first. The reasoning is that your betta has been stressed already, judging by his recent finrot. If you remove him from his tank, you'll need another heater in the temporary tank and you'll have to do vigilant water changes to ensure that the temporary tank doesn't have an ammonia/nitrite spike, which could stress him further. If it's not possible to get Bio-Spira or media elsewhere, I would think about putting some fast-growing plants in his tank - something like anacharis or wisteria. They will help absorb the ammonia until the beneficial bacteria has a chance to catch up. Later on, you can remove the fast-growing plants on a rotating basis and add the plants you want to keep in the tank. Both anacharis and wisteria will get too big for the tank and may require a little more light than what you have, but they can help out with the cycling issues in the meantime.

I just looked on liveaquaria.com and they don't ship anacharis to your state, so it may not be a good idea to try to obtain that plant. I know your state has some strict aquatic laws.

 

[Sahabo]

You mean I can add Bio-Spira to the tank with my betta in it? It won't hurt him in any way? Sorry if that's a noob question!! I guess I'm not all that familiar with it.

 

[Zagz]

Don't be sorry for asking questions! You can add bio spira to your tank and it will not harm your betta.

 

[Sahabo]

Do you recommend it?

 

[Zagz]

I would side with Antiasg on this one as she has had morexperience with it. I can't obtain it up here at all. I don't see how you could not benefit from it unless you can get some cycled media from someone else's tank you know is healthy.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

You should definitely add the Bio Spira with the fish in the tank. If it is added without fish, the bacteria in the Spira will die.

 

[Sahabo]

Ah, of course. That makes sense! Only a matter of finding out how to get my hands on the right stuff (refrigerated of course)...which seems to be very difficult.

In any case, I'm going to wait until I get my water tested for nitrAtes by my LFS this weekend, as I don't have this specific test. On the off chance that my tank is cycled, having skipped the nitrIte phase altogether, or assuming I've been reading the ammonia test incorrectly, or I have been over-paranoid about small amounts of ammonia, or I haven't done the test properly...I'd like to rule these things out before beginning the hunt for Bio-Spira. I'll post full test results when I get them.

Thanks as always to everyone who has been helping me become more informed about this hobby!

Thanks to neilanh for reminding me that I need to be patient

 

[An t-iasg]

In any case, I'm going to wait until I get my water tested for nitrAtes by my LFS this weekend, as I don't have this specific test. On the off chance that my tank is cycled, having skipped the nitrIte phase altogether, or assuming I've been reading the ammonia test incorrectly, or I have been over-paranoid about small amounts of ammonia, or I haven't done the test properly...I'd like to rule these things out before beginning the hunt for Bio-Spira. I'll post full test results when I get them.

That's a good idea. Bio-Spira is a bit expensive, and some places don't carry it. The chain lfs (Petsmart, etc.) probably don't. You'll need to go to a lfs with a bigger fish department. Make sure the Bio-Spira is properly refrigerated when you buy it. Unfortunately you don't know how it was handled in shipping, but it should be in a refrigerator at the lfs. Take a little cooler or one of those insulated lunch bags with a cold pack to bring it home. Put it in the tank with the betta - as Fishyfanatic mentioned, the bacteria will die if you put it in a tank with no fish (no food source for the bacteria).

I do recommend the Bio-Spira. It can be a little expensive (it comes in two sizes, or used to; you'll only need the smaller packet). If you can get a filter squeezing that would be free, but some lfs stores don't do this or you don't want to trust their tanks as far as being disease-free. If your test results still show ammonia or nitrites, I would get Bio-Spira if it was available.