Cycling Trouble

[Menagerie]

From what I know about water chemistry, the high nitrites and nitrates are bringing your pH way down. I do not believe it has anything to do with buffering capacity, but I may be wrong. Once you get going with PWCs and the parameters are stable, your tank will stay around 6.8-7. It is not uncommon for an established tank to have a slightly lower pH than the tap water.

 

[Ginafish]

Okay....that makes sense Menagerie. No, I don't know my water hardness. When I first started, I put in the water conditioner which also buffered the pH at 7.0.
Today's readings:
pH 6.0
Ammonia 1.5ppm
Nitrites 2.0ppm
Nitrates ~10ppm

I wasn't concerned until today. The ammonia hasn't budged since yesterday. And as you can see, the pH is way down now. I wonder why the bacteria stopped eating the ammonia? I did spike it up a little bit more on Tues. (to increase bioload)and since it only went down a little bit yesterday, I didn't add more...and it hasn't changed. :?
All the information I've read (which was a LOT) said to just let it cycle....what do you guys think? Should I do a PWC?

 

[TomK2]

I wish I could help out. I have always lived where the tap water is alkaline and hard, and the hardness really buffers the pH and keeps it high no matter what. That means I have zero experience with nuetral and acidic water. No real sense in worrying too much about it tho, it is much easier to adapt to your local water than it is to try and force your water to adapt to you. Just hang in there. This is week three? I bet one more week and you will be done and stable. I do seem to to recall that nitrite can form an acid in water, so I agree with Menagerie that perhaps this lowers your pH?

Then on another site(http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html), I find this:

"At pH levels below 7.0, Nitrosomonas will grow more slowly and increases in ammonia may become evident. Nitrosomonas growth is inhibited at a pH of 6.5. All nitrification is inhibited if the pH drops to 6.0 or less. "

Maybe this explains why things seem to have slowed down for you? If this is whats going on, A PWC is needed and stop adding ammonia until the nitrites lower, ammonia lowers, and the pH raises? What do the more experienced AA folks think? I bet FancyGuppyGuy has run into this before, he seems to have a link for everything! Wish I had a definitive answer......

 

[TomK2]

Oh, and if you do find you have soft water and low pH after things settle down, and later, if you want to try and increase the hardness and buffering capacity, check out this thread:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=42112

But, I don't recommend you do this now. Wait and let things settle. see what your parameters are later when everything else is stable. Soft, nuetral or acidic water allows you to have some species that have not been tank bred in alkaline water long enough to make them well adapted. I would have to work rather hard to get soft and nuetral water, you get it right out of the tap!

 

[Ginafish]

Tom, I think you're totally right. I remember seeing something on one of those sites I researched about the bacteria perferring a certain pH...which is why I came to that conclusion. And now from what you found...it's correct. I tested the water today and NOTHING has changed. Same readings...it's definitely stalled. I will do a PWC tonight to get the pH back up.
Yeah this is week 3. I think once the pH is back up, it'll finish cycling pretty quick.
Other than this new problem...my tank looks great. LMAO!!! It's crystal clear.
I even went to Tropic Isle today (good store about 30 min away) b/c I was in the neighborhood. I went "window shopping". I think I'm going to start off with 6 zebra danios and maybe 3 other schooling fish. I think that will be an okay bioload to start with. OMG..they had these COOL elephantnose fish there that I had never seen before! So cool! And they also had these golden plecos that were beautiful. They were brown with golden spots...$40 each though. Think I'll pass. LOL
Thanks so much for your help. I'm sorry your water sucks out in IL. JUST KIDDING!! I'm going to test pH out of the tap just for kicks. Don't have a water hardness test but I know it's not soft. We have pretty good water in the Boston area..comes from a huge reservoir (the Quabbin) in the middle of the state.

 

[TomK2]

they had these COOL elephantnose fish

The elephantnose ARE really cool. I had one for a few months in a small overcrowded tank years ago. I don't think I really provided a good environment for it and it died. They are kind of timid, like to hide, need bloodworms and other such foods.

I am curious why you are certain that your water is not soft. My old Atlas of Freshwater fish (Axelrod) lists New York as having soft water (pH=6.7 GH=72ppm). For reference hard water in London has pH 7.8 and GH 310ppm. The Chicagoland water has a pH=7.8 and my test kit gives a GH of 160ppm (just got the liquid kit yesterday, old test strips gave me GH=120). Because calcium bicarbonate provides most of the hardness and raises the pH, it is easy to assume that nuetral to acidic fresh water is soft and alkaline freshwater water is hard, and you would be right most of the time. Not that it matters! Once settled, your tank will be stable but I thought it might explain why your pH dropped. I have this nasty habit of getting sidetracked into WHY things are the way they are

 

[Ginafish]

I could be totally wrong on the hardness but I only said that because with soft water, soaps and detergents and such have a hard time foaming...we don't have the issue here. And I believe people around here buy water softeners for their houses.

I did some research last night on the elephantnose. They do have specific needs and prefer bloodworms, but overall all the sites I read said they are relatively easy to keep. My only concern is that they can get up to 9 inches! 8O That's a huge consideration. I have a nice castle in my tank one could hide in. Guess I have to think about the size factor, and also if I want the extra effort of feeding them at night, etc. I know that sounds lame. LOL

 

[TomK2]

I did some research last night on the elephantnose. They do have specific needs and prefer bloodworms, but overall all the sites I read said they are relatively easy to keep. My only concern is that they can get up to 9 inches! That's a huge consideration.

Go for it! They are so cool. I was just checking out a "freshwater dolphin" at the LFS and they wanted $40 for one, and they are even larger than the elephantnoses. FW species are getting fancy enough to command marine prices these days.

Someone started a hardness test thread that you might want to monitor if you are curious:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=42546&highlight=

 

[Ginafish]

Quick update:
Well, it's been a week and nothing has changed except for the pH because I had to get it up. So I did a 25% PWC earlier in the week and added sodium bicarbonate to get the pH up since the PWC didn't help that at all. I raised it slowly, and actually went a little high by accident...it's about 7.4 (oops). Not my biggest concern right now. The issue is that the readings are completely stalled at
Ammonia 1.5ppm
Nitrites 2.0ppm
Nitrates ~10ppm
I don't know what else to do except a larger water change. I just want this thing to finish cycling! This is week 4. I dont' get it...it was going SO great and now...stalled. Any other suggestions?

 

[Menagerie]

PWC. Continue adding just a touch of ammonia, but now is the time for the PWCs!! PM TankGirl for further help--she has more experience than I do.

 

[TomK2]

So sorry to hear about the continued trouble! I have no advice to offer, but can tell you that a pH of 7.4 is not a problem. In fact, I have read that the optimum pH for nitrifying bacteria is 7.4 to 7.8, so you were right on target! I sure hope your bacteria will get going and wrap things up for you soon.

 

[Ginafish]

Thanks Tom! And thanks Menagerie! Okay, I'll do PWC's and see if that works.

 

[Ginafish]

Did a 50% PWC today. Ammonia readings only went down a little. I'll wait it out I guess and see how it does over the next couple of days.

 

[TomK2]

So Ginafish-
what was the outcome? did it work out for you?