Cycling with fish questions

[jbhfd4]

Hello everyone,

I am new to the forum and fairly new to the fish keeping world!

I apologize in advanced for writing a novel, I want to make sure I have every bit of useful information here.

I bought a 10 gallon tank a couple weeks ago. This is my first full tank setup with a filter and heater etc, so when I purchased it I asked the staff at my local Pet Smart on how to start it up.

The staff at pet smart told me that once the tank is set up it will be "fish ready" in 24 hours. I took the tank home, rinsed the gravel, and filter in tap water. added water to the tank, hooked up the filter and heater and let it sit. I set the heater between 78F-80F and thats where its been since.

I went back to Pet Smart, asked how many fish i should get and what kind for a new tank. I picked up 1 guppy, 2 neon tetras and 1 skirt tetra.

I went home floated the bag in the tank for about 30 minutes to acclimate water temp and released them.

All has been fine for these few weeks, I had some water clouding issues but it went away.

during this time I started to do extensive research and soon discovered I have been very ill-informed about cycling and that doing it with fish is frowned upon in the community.

I purchased a gravel vac, air pump, API master test kit, stress coat and a clean bucket for water changes. (other tank info to note: I have one plastic plant and a couple of other decorations, I also have the hood LED light on a 12hr on/off schedule, please advise if it should be changed.)

the first time I tested my water with the kit I had very high ammonia levels (about 2.0ppm) i quickly did a 50% water change and it dropped a lot to about 0.25ppm and its been holding around there after doing two more 50% changes. I am adding stress coat to the tank every time new water is added (my tap water is well water which tests 0ppm ammonia nitrite and nitrate and has no chlorine) but I add it anyway just in case.

I have limited my feeding to once a day and limited the amount of food they get (they are tiny fish and don't need that much food)

for the past 3 days my water tests results are as follows.

PH - about 7.6
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0

I am unsure if the tank is cycling normally or if its stalled. I am aware that frequent water changes are required in fish-in cycling. And I am prepared to do that until it has finished it's cycle.

I don't understand why the staff at Pet Smart neglected to tell me anything about cycling and the risks of fish-in cycling. If I knew it was risky and borderline inhumane i would have avoided it.

The fish are very active through out the day and have no physical signs of ammonia related issues like, red scaring around their gills, or gasping for air at the top of the tank.

I would like to keep these little guys happy and heathy during this process and every bit of advise is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

 

[coralbandit]

Welcome to AA!
You did the right thing to read up on cycling.
Sounds like you understand the basics so here is a little help;
The amount of water you change% is how much you will reduce any nutrient(ammonia,nitrIte,nitrAte).

Try to keep ammonia and nitrItes at 1ppm max.
Basically change 50% when you hit 1 ppm of either.
Could take 6 weeks easy to cycle!
Test every/everyother day.
A journal(piece of paper with #s and dates,
Or actively documenting info on a tank thread(hint hint) is a great way to track tank /fish progress.

Can't comment on the stress coat but will advocate Seachem Prime even though you are on well water.
It(prime) deals with minerals and can be used to detoxify ammonia and nitrites(which is bigger then water changes!!) as it completely converts the nutrient.
I do both water changes and prime on my breeding tanks to help maintain top quality water parameters.

You can't stall a fish in cycle like fishless IMO.

 

[Coursair]

Long term Skirt Tetras tend to be larger and may become nippy. You may want to return it and later add more Neons. Or swap Neons for 2 more Skirt Tetras.

Ideally Tetras should be in groups of 6 or more. You don't have room for 6 Skirt Tetras. Tho they are very hardy.


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[jbhfd4]

Thank you all for your quick replies!

I was under the impression that Prime and stress coat were essentially the same thing but by different venders. It seems like Prime is better to use when doing a fish-in cycle, so ill pick up some of that this week.

Could I use both Prime and Stress Coat together or is there no need? Also, do i only add these chemicals when changing the water or when the ammonia levels elevate? (sorry if these are silly questions)

As for the skirt tetra, I'm not sure of Pet Smarts return policy, but he seems at peace with his tank mates but i'll keep an eye out to make sure he isn't getting too aggressive.

 

[Coyne]

Your story is pretty common, unfortunately. I had the same thing happen to me when I got my first tank. Why most pet store employees are so poorly trained/informed will forever be a source of frustration for hobbyists.

Fish-in cycling isn't cruel, per se. When done properly, there is little risk to your fish's health. Its just more labor intensive than a Fish-less cycling. You'll really need to stay on top of water testing and water changes to keep things safe. I can remember doing multiple water changes a day when the nitrites started peaking. I've cycled a handful of tanks (with and without fish) and they always seem to take 4-5 weeks. Unless you have access to established filter media, there really isn't any thing you can do to speed things up.

Personally, I prefer to have a larger school of a single species rather than one or two of several different species. I know the variety is alluring, but they tend to be skittish and hide a lot when they're alone or in small numbers. Trading in the Skirt tetra for a few more neons is definitely a good idea. I think you'll find the fish hang out in the open more often since they'll feel more secure in a larger group.


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[jbhfd4]

Hello and thanks again for your replies.

I read online that petsmart has a 7 or 14 day return on live fish, either way I'm over that window. But I will inquire when I go there.

I tested my water again this morning before I left for work and the results are the same as listed in my original post. I will stop at Pet Smart on my way home from work to pick up Seachem Prime and ask them if I could snag some of their gravel from their tanks to assist with my cycling, then go home and do another water change.



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[Mebbid]

"Technically" the tank is fish ready after sitting 24 hours. The temp and ph will stabilize after that time so pet smart didnt lie to you. They just left out the next important step. Also, fish in cycling is only frowned upon by those that are misinformed about it. As long as the fish in cycle is done properly then its no more stressful to fish than if they were in a fully cycled tank.

Just to be sure, are you certain that you are following the directions for the nitrate test to the letter including timed shaking of the vials?

 

[jbhfd4]

Hello everyone!

I just wanted to post an update since my last post.

I have done a few 50% water changes since my last post. All fish seem to be okay, no water clouding etc.

I did my last water change last night around 7pm, I cleaned out my filter intake too because it had stuff stuck in it.

I tested my water this morning around 8:30am before leaving for work and I have different results..

My ammonia went down which is a good thing. I compared the tank water to sink water ( which is from a well) and he tank water had a slight green hue to it compared to the clean sink water which was more yellow. ( sometimes it's tough to differentiate the colors on the chart)

I have a nitrite reading of about 0.25 and a nitrate reading of about 10.

I have starting using Seachem prime as it was highly recommended by the community.

But I still have so newbie questions:

Am I on the right track to a cycled tank?

Are my water changes to large? I did read some where a large water change can really throw the water parameters off.

Should I use a bacteria supplement like Tetra SafeStart to assist the cycle? (which I hear mixed emotions on) because petsmart didn't want to sell me their media/rocks from their tank. They looked at me like I had 5 heads..

You guys have been a great help so far! Thanks again!


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[coralbandit]

Large waterchanges may slow the development of beneficial bacteria, but with fish in tank you have to limit the nutrients.
The % of water changed is the amount the nutrient is reduced.
50% water change should 50% reduction in nuitrients.
IMO you don't have a choice of haw much water to change.
You need to keep ammonia and nitrite around or under 1ppm.
I have known some who did well with the TSS(tetra safe start).
Make sure it is not expired,buy only TSS or DR tims one and only.
They are the two best products of this nature.

 

[Irishhatty]

Hi all
New to this forum.
I have a simular prob to original poster but in my case we cycled the tank(fishless) for 7 days, just adding a tiny amount of fish food towards the end. Didn't have a test kit and (mistakenly) prusumed it would be ok to start adiing fish. Started with a small school of 6 neon tetras. The tank is 200ltrs(not sure what that is in US gallons) I have 6 plastic decor plants, 1 10"x4" piece of bog wood and 2 plastic tank decorations. The substrate is 5mm gravel(rinsed and cleaned with tap water)
every thing seemed to be going well so introduced 5 mollies. no problems done a 25% water changeabout a week or so after adding mollies and got a few zebra danimos and black neon tetras. done weekly water changes the suddenly got very milky coudy water for 2 days but this cleared. Then neon tetras showed signs of ick. followed instructions to medicate tank and this worked well and all fish show no signs of ick. decided then to get an api master test kit and results as follows
no nitrate or nitrate Ph 7.8 ammonia 4.0ppm
done a 40% water change and ammonia down to 2.0ppm
Is my tank not cycled? do i keep up with daily water changes?

 

[Laeris]

Please read this. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/fish-in-cycling-step-over-into-the-dark-side-176446.html It will help you not lose fish.

 

[coralbandit]

Hi all
New to this forum.
I have a simular prob to original poster but in my case we cycled the tank(fishless) for 7 days, just adding a tiny amount of fish food towards the end. Didn't have a test kit and (mistakenly) prusumed it would be ok to start adiing fish. Started with a small school of 6 neon tetras. The tank is 200ltrs(not sure what that is in US gallons) I have 6 plastic decor plants, 1 10"x4" piece of bog wood and 2 plastic tank decorations. The substrate is 5mm gravel(rinsed and cleaned with tap water)
every thing seemed to be going well so introduced 5 mollies. no problems done a 25% water changeabout a week or so after adding mollies and got a few zebra danimos and black neon tetras. done weekly water changes the suddenly got very milky coudy water for 2 days but this cleared. Then neon tetras showed signs of ick. followed instructions to medicate tank and this worked well and all fish show no signs of ick. decided then to get an api master test kit and results as follows
no nitrate or nitrate Ph 7.8 ammonia 4.0ppm
done a 40% water change and ammonia down to 2.0ppm
Is my tank not cycled? do i keep up with daily water changes?

Your tank is NOT cycled.
If you can keep changing water till ammonia is around .5ppm.
This will be another 75% probably.
200l is close to 50g.

Please read this. http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/fish-in-cycling-step-over-into-the-dark-side-176446.html It will help you not lose fish.

^YES^

 

[jbhfd4]

Hey guys. I discovered an issue that may start this process all over again. I will make a different post for that. Thanks again!


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