Fin rotting on Discuss

[suppafreak]

One of my Discuss has a right fin rotting. So far he is the only one affected. I have 5 other discusses and they are OK. I am not sure how he got it. I have UV running, I change 25% of water every week. I might have overfeed the fish and when I measured nitrate it was 50mg/l. I am doing 25% daily water change to lower the nitrate. However, I do not see the fin improving. How do I treat him? I do not have quarantine tank. I will need to apply medication to the tank with the other fish.

Questions?
1. What medication do I need to use? (Furan-2).
2. Will Furan-2 kill the biological filtration?
3. What is the best way to apply the medication? With or without water change?
4. How long the treatment should go on?
5. Should I add aquarium salt? How much?

Setup:
50 Gal.
UV Light
Eheim II (2 baskets)
Power heads

Fish:
6 Discuss
2 Pearl Guramis
2 Congo Tetras
2 Clown Loaches
2 Synodontis Cats
2 Rafael Cats
1 Pleco

The picture below shows the fin. However, the rotting has progressed.

 

[Menagerie]

[center:68b38f7234] Welcome to AA, suppafreak! [/center:68b38f7234]

I will PM our resident discuss guru for you.

 

[suppafreak]

Thanks

 

[BrianNY]

Hi suppafreak and sorry about your problems. The first sign in discus that there's a water quality issue are usually cloudy eyes. You've got several problems in your tank that need to be addressed immediately.

1. Discus NEED a clean, clean, clean environment. Excess nitrates will kill discus and if you've been overfeeding it's probably just one of your probs. I don't overfeed, I keep my discus barebottom tanks and I still change minimum 40% of each tank at least every other day if not daily. You need to do the same as far as water changes.

2. Your tank is grossly overstocked. The amount of waste generated by that many fish in that small a tank is not helping any of your fish (especially the discus).
I'd buy another 50g tank for just those discus and not add anymore.

I know this isn't what you want to hear but it's the only way I can help you. I made the same mistakes when I started with discus. It took a while before I believed they needed as much attention. Check my gallery. and HTH

 

[Menagerie]

I have seen Brian's tanks in person and watched him give out advice before--water quality is key with discuss (hence I keep Mbuna ).

 

[suppafreak]

OK. I will return some fish to the store and do water change.

What do I do to treat the problem right now?

 

[Menagerie]

Most fin rot can be successfully treated with clean water. If there is a med, Brian will be back. Start with the PWCs right away.

 

[suppafreak]

Just a little background.

I have these discusses for about 5 month now. They have grown a bit and there I did not have any problems in the tank except the Ich in the very beginning. This time I made a mistake. I over fed the fish over a week period, and that when the problem started. As I said before once I got the discusses 5 month ago I started changing 25% of the water every week.

Now what happend is in the past and it is time to improve. Please tell me how to treat the fish. I will reduce the fish in the tank an change more water weekly.

Thanks

 

[suppafreak]

I already started with PWCs. I changed 15gal (25%) on Sunday and Monday. Do I need to change more gallons. Also How do I regulate the pH in the new water? Do I need to add buffer? Can I add salt?

 

[BrianNY]

Try this first suppafreak...... Change 40% water daily. Bump the temp up to 88F and add 1 tbsp of salt per 5 gallons (replace the salt with each wc). Do this for 10 days and you should see an improvement. Discus are really quite hardy IF the water chemistry is right.

BTW, it wasn't the one overfeeding that caused this. It was 5 months of bad water. The overfeeding was just the catalyst.

 

[suppafreak]

What about pH for the new water?
How much salt needs to be replaced with each (40%) 20 Gal water change?
Do I need to vacume the gravel with each water change?

 

[BrianNY]

What's the pH of your tank vs tap? If the tap water is a slightly higher pH it isn't a problem. And yes, replace the salt with the water change for 20 gallons.

Good question on the gravel vac. Do half the gravel, wait three days and then do the other half. You need to gravel vac every time but make sure any uneaten food is taken out of the tank with each change.

 

[supafreak]

are you kidding me? someone stole my name!

 

[suppafreak]

Treatment Update

I returned 6 fish to the store. I now have 6 discusses, 2 Congo Tetras, tow synodontis cats, 2 gobies and 1 Pleco. I have been changing water 30% daily and adding salt. However, I do not see any signs of progress. I biggest fears are realizing right now. Whatever that the first discuss caught is spreading to the others. I say whatever because it is not only on the fins anymore. The white spots now appearing on the body. See the picture below. Notice the larger circle shows white spot on the top of the fin and on the body. The smaller one shows the spot on the body.

I also noticed that this specific one is breathing much faster than the other ones. Also all 6 discusses were introduced to the tank at one time. However, this specific one is being picked on by the other discusses. So now most of the time he is hiding. So far he is eating, but I am afraid that can stop at any moment.

I think it is time for medication?
What kind?

I am very concerned.

Click hew to see the picture http://www.v-t-d.com/IMG_0606.jpg

Notice the large circle show the white spot on the top of the fin and white spot little bit above the fin. The smaller circle also shows a white spot on the body.

 

[BrianNY]

I'm going to quote you from the book "Discus Health" by Dieter Untergasser.

Bacterial gill and fin rot - As suggested by the name, in fishes afflicted by this gill filaments and fins rot away. This clinical picture is caused by bacteria of different genera that affect the respective skin areas. This disease has a world-wide distribution and normally occurs only in water with a substantial organic load. Juvenile fishes are affected much more seriously than adult fishes. At first the fin edges develop white edges that bacome wider and wider. Eventually the tissue between the fin rays start to deteriorate, so the rays project beyond the fin margin. As long as decay does not reach the base of the fin, the entire fin can regenerate.

Eradication of the pathogens (Aeromonas, Pseudomonas and Vibrio), usually can be achieved by just improving the water quality and reducing the fish load. For appropriate medical treatment there are effective medicines available at the pet shop. As a pure active ingredient, acriflavine (=typaflavine). The antibiotic neomyacin sulfate should be used only when other treatments have been unsuccesful.

Listen, I'm really trying to help you but you just aren't buying that basically your water sucks. There's likely a tremendous amount of organic debris in both your water column and substrate. It takes several massive water changes to dramtically improve the water conditions in your tank. 30% daily just won't cut it and your fish load is likely still too high. Poor water quality affects discus more than any other FW species. I still don't know what your pH is, or whether or not your tank is fully cycled. If you added all these discus at one time they could be suffering from ammonia or nitrite poisoning as well. Once discus become stressed the opportunity for secondary infections (both bacterial and parasitic), become greater.

 

[BrianNY]

The good news suppafreak is that these fish can be very resilient. I'm posting 2 pics of the same fish for you. One was when I went through a bout of the dreaded discus plague, the other is the same fish 6 months later.

If you don't now own a python to do water changes, I would suggest buying one. I can change 50% water in a 55 gallon in just about 10 minutes with one. And, I wouldn't own discus without it.

Unfortunately I won't be around to help you for the rest of the week. I hope you heed my advice and improve the water conditions so that your fish get better.

 

[BrianNY]

One last thing, let's try reducing the temp gradually to 84 degrees. This will slow down the bacterial growth.

HTH and good luck

 

[suppafreak]

The pH is between 7 and 7.5. The tank fully cycled. I appreciate all your help. How do you prepare the water. Does the python connects to the faucet directly? If yes, then how does the water being conditioned to remove the chlorine, chloramines, etc? And what about the tempeture?

 

[suppafreak]

I don't think I can use Python.

This is from the LA DWP site.

Fish


Do I need to treat the water before I use it for my fish?

Yes. Your drinking water contains disinfectants to inhibit bacterial growth. These disinfectants can kill fish. In most of the City of Los Angeles, the water contains chlorine. In the Southern Boyle Heights, Harbor Gateway, San Pedro, and Wilmington areas, the water contains chloramines. Both disinfectants can be neutralized by adding the appropriate chemicals which are available at most pet stores. Both disinfectants can also be removed with a granular activated carbon (GAC) water filter. Chlorine, but not chloramines, can be removed from the water by letting a container of the water sit exposed to the atmosphere (uncovered) for at least 48 hours.

 

[Menagerie]

The pH is between 7 and 7.5. The tank fully cycled. I appreciate all your help. How do you prepare the water. Does the python connects to the faucet directly? If yes, then how does the water being conditioned to remove the chlorine, chloramines, etc? And what about the tempeture?

You regulate the temp with the hot and cold knobs. I add water straight to my tanks and at the same time, I add the dechlor (Aqua Plus) that negates the chlorine and chloramines.

What water are you using now? Is it tap water?

Do I need to treat the water before I use it for my fish?

Basically, the answer is to add the dechlor/water conditioner and all will be fine. Do you regularly replace the GAC in your filter?