Fish dying in new tank :(

[Jaylah]

Hello everyone! Sad that this has to be my new post. Hopefully I'll have something more positive to contribute in the future.

About 2 weeks ago I got a 15G tank and realized I'd prefer something bigger. I cycled my small tank with some fish in there. I had a betta fish in there, a couple of mollies, a couple of cory cats, a snail and a couple of baby angelfish my friend gave me.

I finally got the 36G tank, cycled it for a bit (I know the ideal is to wait much longer than just 24 hours), dechlorinated the water, added most of the water from the old tank, added the bacteria + stress relief solution, some sort of solution that reduces ammonia, and because the old tank had to go back to my friend, I transferred the fish over. Every single one died except for the cat fish.

These were my original results:

Gh 0
Kh 0
Ph 6
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Ammonia 0.5

I called the local aquarium store (they're honestly considered the experts in the city as they specialize in this sort of thing) and they told me to get a ph buffer, as well as some aquarium salt. They gave me a couple of mollies as a 'sorry' of sorts. I didn't add them in till I added these solutions and got some results back.

Gh 0
Kh 40
ph 6.5
nitrite 0
nitrate 20
ammonia 0.1 at most (I want to say it's zero but the test strips are confusing and I'm ditching the strips after this and switching to the water based one(?))

Despite all this, the mollies died too. The catfish are still alive but one is kind of floating around, looking up and not really 'swimming' if this makes any sense.

Things I have in the tank currently:

*Switching from gravel in the old tank to sand in the new one.
*All plants are fake and transferred over from the old tank
*Top Fin Multi-Stage Internal filter (40G)
*an aquarium ornament with an airstone connected to a Fluval air pump

What can I do? I'm banging my head against the wall and am devastated I lost most of my fish. Please help. I feel so discouraged

 

[flchamp89]

1. Original tank was grossly overstocked and judging by the 0 trates was probably not cycled.
2 new tank is not cycled
3. Strips are not most accurate odds are your not looking at true numbers. Api fw master kit
4. Old tank water is of no help with your cycle
5. Internal filter for a 40g....its hard to imagine that working in a tank that size
6. Now that you have no fish....can start from ground zero and do a fishless cycle...not all bad news imo. Need to cycle properly.
7. Ph buffers work temporarily and will always bounce back. Crushed coral would be better choice long term. But the real test kit may reveal no need for it
8. I get the mollies..but those other fish wont appreciate the salt. Odds are those mollies haven't been in tanks with salt. Salt is a slippery slope. Once a common practice now rarely used in main display tank.

Need good parameters of source water...step one

 

[Jaylah]

1. Original tank was grossly overstocked and judging by the 0 trates was probably not cycled.
2 new tank is not cycled
3. Strips are not most accurate odds are your not looking at true numbers. Api fw master kit
4. Old tank water is of no help with your cycle
5. Internal filter for a 40g....its hard to imagine that working in a tank that size
6. Now that you have no fish....can start from ground zero and do a fishless cycle...not all bad news imo. Need to cycle properly.
7. Ph buffers work temporarily and will always bounce back. Crushed coral would be better choice long term. But the real test kit may reveal no need for it
8. I get the mollies..but those other fish wont appreciate the salt. Odds are those mollies haven't been in tanks with salt. Salt is a slippery slope. Once a common practice now rarely used in main display tank.

Need good parameters of source water...step one

Thank you so much for your response.

1. "trates" - do you mean nitrates? I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with all the terminology quite yet.
2. Yeah it definitely wasn't.
3. That's next on my list
4. I figured I'd give it a shot because they seemed to be doing well in there for those couple of weeks
5. The filter is ridiculously strong. Everything I've read online (which I guess you have to take with a grain of salt....uh, no pun intended?) has been mostly positive about this one and everyone seemed to mention how strong it was. I actually had to bring it down to about 50% because it seemed to be really strong. I'd love to hear more opinions about internal filters. Also, I apologize. I should edit my post. I checked and my tank is 36G
6. Any recommendations at all as to how to cycle well and what to use? They gave me so, so many products (including aquarium salt) that I'm stuck in a state of confusion now and don't know which one to use. Dechlorinator (sp?) obviously, the live bacteria solution (Prime) and fish flakes? How often should I do a water change? I know I can google it and I did but I swear to god, every website seems to give me different answers.
7. I was told corals (and shells) are bad for freshwater tanks because of the calcium?
8. Again, today when I mentioned my ph was low, they recommended the ph buffer and salt. Will the salt go away over time or do I have to clean it somehow? I have sand substrate and wouldn't even know where to begin.

Thanks again for your help. I'll edit my original post to edit the size of the aquarium.

Edit: Also, they told me that it wasn't overstocked since they were babies and I planned to get a bigger one. Lesson learned. I just wish they weren't throwing SO many things at me because I'm confused as to what to use and how to go about this.

 

[Fresh2o]

Sorry about the rough start.
1. Yes, trates is short for nitrates
In the Freshwater>Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started section there is a Stickies area that has several articles that will explain the cycling process. Definitely worth reading!
Here is a link: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...ou-get-started-with-your-aquarium-154837.html

 

[flchamp89]

If at all possible you dont want to mess with ph. Its better to build your stock around your parameters. But crushed coral is a option. Ph always will revert back to source. Low or high stable ph is better than wild swings that one can have from chemical buffers. Crushed coral will slowly loose its effectiveness allowing you time to notice through checking. Chemical buffers are removed through weekly pwc. Constant battle.

Aquavisor is a site that will give you an idea on stocking. Many fish need proper shoals or schools to thrive. Also need to stock according to your source water parameters so fish thrive. Makes yours and theirs life easier.

Im not familiar with the bb product you have. Im sure someone else here is. Tetra ss and dr tims are very popular.

Salt will go away through weekly wc.

Maybe the filter is fine. You make want to post some info and or a picture. Most internal filters have good flow because they shoot out like a power head. Aside from taking up space and aesthetics. Many are a pita to do maintenance on.

A 40g is typically where I start thinking about a canister as I want the ability for large amounts of media. Thats where alot of internals fall short.

 

[nirbhao]

Reasons the "planning on getting a bigger tank later" is not a good stocking strategy:
- Illness or injury
- Job or education change
- Family size change
- Any impetus for filing a homeowner insurance claim
- Shifting interests or hobbies
- Regular exposure making it difficult to see the extent of gradual changes

 

[SherLar]

Prime is a water conditioner and chlorine deactivator, but to my knowledge has no BB. Your best source for BB is just to properly cycle your tank with ammonia IMO.

 

[OnTheFly]

Prime is a water conditioner and chlorine deactivator, but to my knowledge has no BB. Your best source for BB is just to properly cycle your tank with ammonia IMO.

You are correct, no bacteria in Prime. It's a great product for cycling with fish as it locks/binds the dangerous ions and makes them much less toxic to fish, but still available to plants and bacteria.. In a fishless cycle it has little if any value as is dissipate's in a day or two.

Jaylah you did not cycle your tank at all. You merely aged your new water for one day. Your mileage may vary, but the first ammonia spike comes within a few days when I establish new tanks with fish. Then the nitrite spike that can last a week or more unfortunately.

 

[toolman]

Sorry about the rough start, listen to these hobbyists.. they know their stuff. We've all made mistakes, and a BIG common one is listening to the lfs (local fish store)...
Some give good advice.
Some just want to sell you stuff.
Some just don't know any better.

Listen to what they say, then research it on your own so you understand.
Hobby becomes way easier, more enjoyable.

As stated.. now you can research and do it right.

 

[Jaylah]

Thanks everyone. I'm pretty devastated about losing all my fish. I did research online but they told me "Don't trust everything you read on the internet" and essentially pretended to be specialists in the matter. Well, clearly that didn't end up well which is why I came here. I feel awful and I hope some of the comments with attitudes weren't directed at me (a complete novice with good intentions) but at the advice I was given. You can read a billion things online, but when someone at a specialty store gives you advice, you're inclined to take it because of a lack of any other personal experience.



I've attached some photos of the empty aquarium, the filter, the airpump (which isn't on right now - should it be?) and all the products they have sold me (do I even need all of these?)

 

[OnTheFly]

Jaylah,

I am sorry that did that to you. They don't want to tell you it will take at least a few weeks to start an aquarium even close to properly. People are not patient and they would lose business. So they sell you fish and chemicals and hope you will keep buying when things settle in eventually. They know very well their customers will kill fish for awhile. Sadly it's good for their business if you have to do it two or three times. As I said earlier your tank is just not cycled at all yet. You can do a cycle with or without fish. Without seems to be the current trend. I mostly cycle with fish but I do some work everyday, and I basically start out with some feeder fish. I don't kill them but they get stressed the first week for sure. When the water settles down I gradually add more desirable fish. Others will strongly disagree with my method.

 

[toolman]

Sorry about the rough start.
1. Yes, trates is short for nitrates
In the Freshwater>Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started section there is a Stickies area that has several articles that will explain the cycling process. Definitely worth reading!
Here is a link: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...ou-get-started-with-your-aquarium-154837.html

Did you read these stickies, they will give you an idea how to get started.

There is a lot of conflicting information on the net, and also can be conflicting opinions here on occasion, but the more you learn/research you'll begin to see how things work and it won't be so overwhelming.

 

[29Gsaltaquatics]

I have never seen KH that high! But no affects happen to (only) fish for awhile(2-3 weeks). Ammonia is sky rocketing, use Seachem Prime to get that down temporarily until "permanent" fix.
Freshwater Parameter Ideals:
pH: 6.4-7.2
GH: 4-12
KH: 3-7
Temp. 72-79
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate .5-1
1 inch of adult small fish per gallon (this doesn't count for big fish, 5"+)

 

[Jaylah]

Did you read these stickies, they will give you an idea how to get started.

There is a lot of conflicting information on the net, and also can be conflicting opinions here on occasion, but the more you learn/research you'll begin to see how things work and it won't be so overwhelming.

I'll have to read them more thoroughly this weekend but yes, I did skim it for now. My plan is to cycle without fish for a few weeks as I honestly can't bear seeing more fish die because of my mistake.

Jaylah,

I am sorry that did that to you. They don't want to tell you it will take at least a few weeks to start an aquarium even close to properly. People are not patient and they would lose business. So they sell you fish and chemicals and hope you will keep buying when things settle in eventually. They know very well their customers will kill fish for awhile. Sadly it's good for their business if you have to do it two or three times. As I said earlier your tank is just not cycled at all yet. You can do a cycle with or without fish. Without seems to be the current trend. I mostly cycle with fish but I do some work everyday, and I basically start out with some feeder fish. I don't kill them but they get stressed the first week for sure. When the water settles down I gradually add more desirable fish. Others will strongly disagree with my method.

I'm just really mad they insisted (and keep insisting) that cycling with fish in there is better and "faster". I'm going to cycle without till my test results are better.

I have never seen KH that high! But no affects happen to (only) fish for awhile(2-3 weeks). Ammonia is sky rocketing, use Seachem Prime to get that down temporarily until "permanent" fix.
Freshwater Parameter Ideals:
pH: 6.4-7.2
GH: 4-12
KH: 3-7
Temp. 72-79
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate .5-1
1 inch of adult small fish per gallon (this doesn't count for big fish, 5"+)

Not sure what you mean. KH doesn't go that low on my test results. See picture attached.

 

[OnTheFly]

I have never seen KH that high! But no affects happen to (only) fish for awhile(2-3 weeks). Ammonia is sky rocketing, use Seachem Prime to get that down temporarily until "permanent" fix.
Freshwater Parameter Ideals:
pH: 6.4-7.2
GH: 4-12
KH: 3-7
Temp. 72-79
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate .5-1
1 inch of adult small fish per gallon (this doesn't count for big fish, 5"+)

29 is right, your water is VERY hard. So is mine. Not the time to get into those details but your water is buffered. It will fight any attempt to drop the PH significantly. Start with fish that are tolerant of high PH. High PH is OK, volatile PH is not OK at all. Volatile is what you will get if you start throwing acid at it. It will drop to a good PH number for a half a day and quickly bounce back to about where you started. That is very hard on fish. There are many choices of fish that can tolerate your water, and even thrive. PH is a variable you don't need to deal with starting out.

I also agree with Seachem Prime. If you want to have fish during cycle it is almost magic. It will keep spikes from killing your fish.

 

[29Gsaltaquatics]

Jaylah What are you measuring your KH in? ppm? mL?

 

[Jaylah]

Jaylah What are you measuring your KH in? ppm? mL?

I'm not sure? Did you not see the photo I attached a couple of comments above? I'm literally just following those instructions and basing it on the manual inside.

 

[Jaylah]

FYI, based on my manual, it says my Kh is actually good. So now I'm confused by your responses. Are you using a different measurement unit?

 

[29Gsaltaquatics]

Ok, it doesn't look like ppm, I couldn't tell in the picture. Here is a picture for parameters

 

[29Gsaltaquatics]

What is the name of the test kit you are using