Fish in cycle?? Don't shoot me :\

[bitsy1603]

Hi all,
Ok, so please don't berate me for the things I've done wrong. I'm new to this malarkey and thought that API QuickStart would work... Now I'm not so sure.

I set up a 98 litre (25US gallon) tank 4 days ago. Plastic plants.

I used Tetra AquaSafe to dechlorinate the water and API QuickStart to add the nitrates and deal with the Ammonia... or so I thought!

I ran the filter for 24 hours. On Day 2 I added a bit more QuickStart. I thought the tanks was cycled as I liquid tested Ammonia and got 0.25ppm which I felt was very low and could be due to the QuickStart suspension right?! I used test strips (I know! Another mistake...) to determine the hardness, pH and Nitrite/Nitrate readings.

Day 2 parameters looked like this:
Ammonia 0.25ppm
GH 60
KH 80
pH 6-6.5
Nitrite 0-0.5ppm
Nitrate 20ppm

I thought this looked great and added 6 Zebra Danios. Two of them were very skinny and lethargic from the start, One of those died overnight (found Day 3 am). I thought this could just be if he was stressed by the move etc. Then today the other little one died. I noticed his gills were very red (ammonia poisoning I thought, having read a little...) and so did some more research on here which led me to buy liquid tests for the other parameters to be more accurate!

The most amazing difference to me was the pH reading!! I now know this could make the 0.25ppm ammonia more deadly?!

Day 4 parameters (photo included - from Right to Left)
Ammonia 0.25ppm
pH 7.6+
Nitrite 0-0.25ppm
Nitrate 0-5ppm

The ammonia hasn't budged, Nitrates and Nitrites don't look unhealthy but just in case, I did a 30% water change and added Tetra AquaSafe (no QuickStart this time).

And here I am... seeking help please for the following...

1) Where do you think I may be in the cycle?
2) What can I do now to protect my remaining 4 Danio (I will buy 2 more to make a happier little shoal of 6 once I'm sure the tank is safe!)?
3) How often should I now test the water?
4) When should I do water changes etc?
5) How long do you estimate the cycle to take from now?

I'll post another about stocking this tank once I think the tank is safe for other members!

Thanks in advance.
Bitsy

 

[Laser]

I'm on the side that believes fish in cycling is acceptable. In fact having tried the fishless and fish in methods I would choose the fish in if I had to do it over again.

This article by JetaJockey is a very good read about fish in cycling. Fish-in Cycling: Step over into the dark side - Aquarium Advice

1) I'd say you're still at the beginning of your cycle.
2) Water changes are the number one thing you can do to protect your fish.
3) I would test the water no fewer times than once per day.
4) I would perform a 50% water change whenever your ammonia and/or nitrite reads 0.25 or higher
5) It's hard to tell. I would guess a month.

 

[Orlon11]

If you know anyone with an established aquarium, ask them for some used filter media (sponge, etc.) and put it in your filter. It will hugely speed up the cycle. Make sure it stays wet on the trip over, if it dries the beneficial bacteria will die.

 

[Cichfreak]

I actually had good luck with the snake oil they call QuickStart. Had been into the hobby awhile back ago but had to take a hiatus due to having them expensive things called rug rats. Pet store guy says poor and go and I am thinking ok sure but the reason for getting back into hobby was my youngest was dying to start one. Yes. The youngest heard that and after explaining to him the 6 week window roughly to cycle. He was like yes. Back then I would use goldfish or damsels depending on tank and return to pet store as I replaced them. My tank current tank. 56 gallon column. Two sponges one in each corner powered by penguin power heads. Marineland c360 canister. I was amazed the tank cycled in 23 days. I ran tests everyday for the first 45 and was amazed. The ammonia never went above .5 and the nitrites did the same. At 23 days I saw nitrates. The quick start doesn't add nitrates it helps convert to nitrates. I added 4 fish the second day of tank running. Two weeks later added 4 more. I added the QuickStart about every three to four days. The tank is currently full of 17 african cichlids. All are juves. Preparing a 75 for them now but I really must of been lucky.

 

[bitsy1603]

When will I know if it's cycled enough for me to add more fish?!

If I've added QuickStart the ammonia may never 'spike' right...

So I'm looking for 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite.

I guess I don't really know because I have pretty close to that now! Will just have to monitor it and see what the levels do.

If they stay steady like this for a week does that mean QuickStart probably did something?

Thanks for help so far

 

[jetajockey]

The short answer is when you start getting steady 0 ammonia and nitrite test results. It's possible to add more fish while you are still establishing the cycle, but the more fish you add the more waste will be produced, which means more frequent water changes from the spiking ammonia/nitrite.

 

[bitsy1603]

Ok thanks.

 

[Caliban07]

Hi bitsy

You should first test your own water supply with the test kit so you know your baseline levels are and what is going in. Like has already been mentioned you are looking for 0ppm nitrite and ammonia. You can test a bottle of drinking water with the ammonia test kit so you know what 0 looks like. At 0.25ppm your eyes can play tricks on you in certain lights but if you have a reference tube of drinking water you can easily see the difference.

You're gonna be looking at keeping those 4 fish on their own for the next 2-3 weeks. I would just do normal weekly water changes of around 25-30% IF the test continuously reads 0.25ppm ammonia.

Try not to overfeed the danios or the ammonia will rise. One small feeding a day will be enough until the cycle completes.

Good luck.

 

[Caliban07]

P.S I don't believe the bottled bacterias contain any nitrifying bacteria and are one of many money making schemes constructed to take advantage of newer hobbyists.

 

[bitsy1603]

Thankyou Caliban
I'm feeding them every other day as I heard that keeps ammonia down and shouldn't do any harm. The 4 danios seem quite happy at the moment.
I will definitely test the tap water too.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

P.S I don't believe the bottled bacterias contain any nitrifying bacteria and are one of many money making schemes constructed to take advantage of newer hobbyists.

they wouldn't do a thing like that!

(Actually I agree)

All of my tanks were fish in.
(Some were completely natural starts like yours now)
Test twice a day, water changes 2-3 per day. Breakfast, home time, bedtime.
Minimal meals. Make notes in a pad or even better a diary. Keep diary it'll be dead handy in three months or maybe six. I used a pad to start with but dated notes are better. (Just my opinion)

My first tank I used API stress zyme, not sure if it did anything. I never used it again. No problems ever except one,unfortunate incident where I moved a bit too quick.

So patience, and water changes. Once the nitrite settles to 0 you are ready, assuming also 0 ammonia.

(Good advice on tap water, test it, test during different weather. Make notes, it can change when it gets hot/cold/rainy/dry.
Minimum tap water tests I'd say, TDS, ammonia, nitrate, GH, Kh, pH and T. (Maybe phosphate)

After that, a quick TDS test will show any changes quickly and cheaply, then you can find the cause as you see fit, testing individual parameters.

From then you will get some numbers for your water normally they tie back to a TDS reading, the lower reading has this make up, the higher reading has that make up. (Not guaranteed but 90% of the time it's the same)

 

[Pandicorn]

If you know anyone with an established aquarium, ask them for some used filter media (sponge, etc.) and put it in your filter. It will hugely speed up the cycle. Make sure it stays wet on the trip over, if it dries the beneficial bacteria will die.

Yup. If you have a friend or trusted LFS, this can greatly speed up the cycle. Don't worry about fish-in cycling, it's perfectly humane if you know what you're doing!

 

[BBradbury]

Fish In Tank Cycling

Hello bit...

Long post, but I got the idea and you've gotten off to a good start by choosing a hardy fish. That's why this method gets a bad reputation. Waterkeepers pick the wrong fish.

So, now the fish are in, you get a reliable water testing kit and test every day for traces of ammonia or nitrite from the dissolved fish wastes. If you have a positive test, you change out 25 percent of the tank water and replace that with pure, treated tap water. That's all. You're growing a colony of good bacteria to use the ammonia and nitrite for their food.

Add any floating plants you can get. Floaters remove the dissolved wastes. Hornwort is a good one.

You just test the water daily and remove some when needed. When several daily tests show no traces of the above toxins, the tank is cycled. The nitrogen cycle run its course in a month.

B

 

[bitsy1603]

Thanks for your help folks.

So I tested the tap water which showed no nitrates or nitrite but a trace of ammonia (0.125ppm at an estimate!)

Then I tested the tank...

No nitrite at all, definitely less the yesterday. More 'blue' than purple.

Ph 7.6

No nitrate either (I shook the bottle and tube etc pretty well!)

Ammonia seemed LESS than yesterday and even LESS than the tap water...!

Confused now. Am I still waiting for any action or has the cycle worked?

This is Day 5 of fish in cycle.

How long do I wait for any change? Should I still leave it 2-3 weeks before adding more fish even if my results look like this daily? Maybe I have missed nitrite 'spike' when using test strips.

 

[bitsy1603]

 

[bitsy1603]

For reference here's yesterday's below. I did a 30%water change after this, 24hrs later took day 5 samples above.

 

[PB_Smith]

Don't be fooled by the numbers, let the tank complete the cycle. What you are seeing is reduced concentrations due to the water changes, I doubt the tank is stabilized yet.
In actuality doing a lot of water changes can prolong the time it takes to completely cycle. Let it go a week and keep on eye on the fish. Letting it roll is really the only way you will be able to know for sure if it is done or just the result of water changes.
When the tank is completely cycled what you should see are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and gradually rising nitrate which is managed best in fresh water with pcw's or lots of live plants. Those should be consistent readings each time.

Also bear in mind that the bacteria colony will grow to accommodate the current bio-load and will need a few days/week to adjust when you add more livestock, so add new fish slowly, only 1-2 about 2-3 weeks apart to let everything regain equilibrium.

One note about using seeding material, it works great and is highly recommended, BUT keep in mind that when using seeding bacteria, the three levels will rise concurrently so it is even more important to stay on top of water quality. When starting completely bare with no seeding, it goes through the progression; ammonia>nitrite>nitrate consecutively, with seeded bacteria they can all hit high numbers at the same time.
Not horrible, just have to watch for it.

 

[bitsy1603]

Ok I'll be patient!

 

[bitsy1603]

Thanks everyone

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Do a high range pH test. That 7.6 may be 8 or more. It looks very dark.

Less ammonia in the tank vs the tap water means your filter has developed the means to break down or utilise ammonia.

Welcome Nitrosamonas.