Fish in cycling-stay the course or get replacement?

[Bobrummel]

I am in the process of a fish in cycle. I started with three lemon tetras a month ago. I woke up this morning and one fish is gone! I assume that it was eaten as I cannot find any evidence in the tank, on the floor, or in the filter.

My question is, should I go and get one more fish or should I just continue on with the two remaining fish that I have? I do a 50% water change when levels get to .25 ppm ammonia(every two to three days). I haven't seen noticeable nitrites yet per my API kit. As mentioned earlier, I have been cycling for exactly 1 month now.
Thanks,

 

[KristaButler]

Well I just did whatever. "I know fish cruelty". I did a 25 percent water change every 4 days and stocked whatever I wanted. Nothing died. Funny tho, I've lost fish over other things later on.


May the force be with you.

 

[BBradbury]

Fish In Tank Cycling

I am in the process of a fish in cycle. I started with three lemon tetras a month ago. I woke up this morning and one fish is gone! I assume that it was eaten as I cannot find any evidence in the tank, on the floor, or in the filter.

My question is, should I go and get one more fish or should I just continue on with the two remaining fish that I have? I do a 50% water change when levels get to .25 ppm ammonia(every two to three days). I haven't seen noticeable nitrites yet per my API kit. As mentioned earlier, I have been cycling for exactly 1 month now.
Thanks,

Hello Bo...

Don't know anything about your tank, but 3 or now 2 small fish won't do much to cycle it. Tetras aren't hardy fish, so it's unlikely they'll survive the process.

Cycling a tank with fish requires setting up the tank ahead of time, including a lot floating plants like Hornwort and letting everything run without fish for a couple of days. Then, you get 3 to 4 medium sized, hardy fish for every 10 gallons of tank size. Platys, Female Guppies, any of the Minnows, Rasboras and Danios are all good. Others, are too sensitive to changes in water chemistry, which happens during the nitrogen cycle.

Once the fish are in, you have your liquid water testing kit handy and start testing daily for traces of ammonia and nitrite. If you have a positive test you remove and replace one-quarter of the water and replace it with treated tap water. If your remove more water, you remove the food source for the bacteria colony that needs to grow and that can delay the cycle. Just test daily and remove the water when needed. Feed the fish a little bit every couple of days. When several daily tests show no traces of the above toxins the tank is cycled. The cycle takes a month. Then, you up the water changes to 50 percent every few days to keep the fish wastes out of the tank water. You follow this water change routine for the life of the tank.

B

 

[icydeath]

I agree with Bbradbury. Anacharis will also work well.

Have you read a guide on fish in cycling yet? Not trying to offend, just wondering. The best fish to do it would be danios, platies, etc because they are hardy. A lot of people disagree with fish in cycling, but that is a topic for another day.

How big is this tank?

 

[Bobrummel]

Yes, I read the Fish-in cycling and thought I was doing it appropriately, but being a newbie, I could have been over cautious?

It is a 29 gallon tank with a AquaClear 70 filter. I do not have any live plants, but that is a discussion for another time.

I put 3 fish in (Lemon Tetras at the advice of my LFS dependent on selection). I started testing daily and every time my ammonia has gotten to .25 ppm, I did a 50% water change. It would never go back down to 0, but I was thinking it would still keep enough ammonia to grow bacteria, but not so much as to cause toxicity in the fish. I was told/read that I should only add 1 fish per 10 gallons and it would take 6-8 weeks for the full cycle to happen. Was I given incorrect information?

For the first week, I didn't change the water at all. Then, week 2 and 3 got 50% PWC every other day. Week 4 started 50% PWC every 3 days. I thought this may be a sign that some bacteria was starting to grow since I was able to go longer between PWC. Was that a bad assumption?

Honestly, I do not know if the fish died because of my cycling or because of predation from the other fish. It was the one that was the loner of the 3.

Please keep the advice coming!

 

[Mebbid]

3 fish for a 29g is perfectly fine. Bbradburys suggestion for 3 to 4 times that is absurd.

Do you happen to have a cat or dog? If a fish is gone without a trace it usually means it jumped. I find it hard to believe that 2 tetras were able to eat an entire fish.

 

[Bobrummel]

Mystery solved...sort of!

I found the missing victim! I looked again and found it under the tank stand. I have no idea how it got there as I have a full glass top, but I guess it leaped out when I had the top open.

So, back to the original question...should I continue cycling with just the 2 remaining fish or should I go and get a replacement? I am totally fine with progressing conservatively, but I wantto be able to add more fish before 2016!

 

[Mebbid]

I found the missing victim! I looked again and found it under the tank stand. I have no idea how it got there as I have a full glass top, but I guess it leaped out when I had the top open.

So, back to the original question...should I continue cycling with just the 2 remaining fish or should I go and get a replacement? I am totally fine with progressing conservatively, but I wantto be able to add more fish before 2016!

If it were me, I'd go get another.

 

[icydeath]

While you do, grab some anacharis or the like.

 

[BBradbury]

Fish In Tank Cycling

3 fish for a 29g is perfectly fine. Bbradburys suggestion for 3 to 4 times that is absurd.

Do you happen to have a cat or dog? If a fish is gone without a trace it usually means it jumped. I find it hard to believe that 2 tetras were able to eat an entire fish.

Hi Meb...

If you want to cycle the tank, you use medium sized, hardy fish that tolerate a bit poorer water conditions and use several to get the waste mixing with oxygen and cycle the tank in 30 days. If you want to dance around cycling the tank for a couple of months, then absolutely, put 2 or 3 little sensitive fish in there that won't make it past the first week of the cycle. You'll be going back and forth to pet store to get more fish and be cycling the same tank this time next year.

B

 

[Mebbid]

Hi Meb...

If you want to cycle the tank, you use medium sized, hardy fish that tolerate a bit poorer water conditions and use several to get the waste mixing with oxygen and cycle the tank in 30 days. If you want to dance around cycling the tank for a couple of months, then absolutely, put 2 or 3 little sensitive fish in there that won't make it past the first week of the cycle. You'll be going back and forth to pet store to get more fish and be cycling the same tank this time next year.

B

1- Following your directions for cycling the tank and put 3 - 4 fish per 10 gallons. Lets use platies in a 20g tank. That's almost the entire tank stocking for cycling the tank. So you're basically telling us to go out and fully stock our tank without trying to cycle it?

Check it - 78%
AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor

2 - You suggest doing a water change any time there is a positive reading for ammonia or nitrite. This is counter productive. If your water is soo clean that the readings for ammonia and nitrite are at 0.0ppm then your cycle will never ever progress and you will still be cycling your tank some time in 2016. That is why it is suggested to do a 50% water change any time the levels rise above 0.25ppm. That way the levels will never be too low to be utilized by beneficial bacteria and they will keep growing.

3 - Assuming your levels don't drop to 0 then your cycle is still progressing. This is true whether there is 1 fish per 10 gallons or 20 fish per 10 gallons.

4 - You suggest to every single person on this forum to fill their tanks with hornwort, especially when cycling in effect trying making everyone's tank just like yours. The problem is, that hornwort consumes the ammonia you're trying to use for cycling the tank. It's counter productive so if you don't want the tank to still be cycling in 2016 then just skip it. The lower fish bio load alone will keep the water parameters more stable.

5 - You and I both know you've never done cycling any way but yours. Try out running a fishless cycle as well as cycling a tank with a low bio load (1 fish per 10 gallons) then by all means comment away on how they work.

6 - Lastly, the fish in this case died from carpet surfing. If you can attribute that to ammonia poisoning then.. wow.

 

[icydeath]

To OP, you CAN cycle with a small bioload. All that will happen is your biofilter will have less bacteria as the ammonia concentration in the tank is directly correlated to the strength of the biofilter.

This being said, you CAN cycle your tank with 2 or 3 platies. It won't even take longer, if anything it would be shorter. However, your filter will be weaker than if you stocked more or fishless cycled (only because you can get to 4ppm consistently). So, when your tank does cycle, you will want to add fish very slowly and have counter measures for stress such as Seachem Prime, API StressZyme, and API StressCoat. This way while you cycle, less fish are likely to be lost, you will lose less money, and you will be doing less water changes relative to having double this number or more in the tank. The key to doing this is adding fish slowly with the counter measures.

 

[Bobrummel]

Okay...

Hmmm...interesting.

I understand that if I had fish less cycled I would end up after my cycle with a Monster Biofilter or if I cycled with more fish my Biofilter would be bigger than if I cycled with only a few fish. However, am I wrong I thinking that the Biofilter would eventually only be big enough to handle the number of fish I had at the time? I mean, even if I cycled fishless with a ton of ammonia and built up a huge filter, once I added fish, the Biofilter would die off to only be Able to support that many fish? The extra bacteria would die because there wasn't enough "food" to keep them all alive?

If that is true, the same would hold for cycling with more fish. The reason the Biofilter would be bigger once I got done, is because there is more ammonia for them to eat. But cycling with more fish would potentially put them in a more toxic environment because while the filter is building up, toxic levels would be reached sooner because more fish are producing more waste (ie daily monster spikes).

On the other hand, if I cycle with a smaller fish load, I will be in a mini spike and plateau catch-22 until I get my whole fish family in place. Seemingly less stressful on the fish because the increase in toxins is more gradual (maybe 2+ days between PWC and never reaching critical toxic levels) but for days because every time I add fish, I will have a spike even once I reach my initial cycle completion. Also, I will need to add fish slowly or risk a big spike.

So, options:
1. Fishless--shorter time, big Biofilter until fish are added and then bacteria die off. Not an option for me since I already have fish.
2. Lots of fish cycle--more toxic to fish daily, but shorter for owner. Once Biofilter established, it is done.
3. Few fish--less toxic for fish, more gradual toxic load. Longer for human to get full tank. Many spike plateaus along the way.

Someone critique my logic, please!

 

[Mebbid]

I understand that if I had fish less cycled I would end up after my cycle with a Monster Biofilter or if I cycled with more fish my Biofilter would be bigger than if I cycled with only a few fish. However, am I wrong I thinking that the Biofilter would eventually only be big enough to handle the number of fish I had at the time? I mean, even if I cycled fishless with a ton of ammonia and built up a huge filter, once I added fish, the Biofilter would die off to only be Able to support that many fish? The extra bacteria would die because there wasn't enough "food" to keep them all alive?

Yup, you got it exactly right

If that is true, the same would hold for cycling with more fish. The reason the Biofilter would be bigger once I got done, is because there is more ammonia for them to eat. But cycling with more fish would potentially put them in a more toxic environment because while the filter is building up, toxic levels would be reached sooner because more fish are producing more waste (ie daily monster spikes).

Also correct

On the other hand, if I cycle with a smaller fish load, I will be in a mini spike and plateau catch-22 until I get my whole fish family in place. Seemingly less stressful on the fish because the increase in toxins is more gradual (maybe 2+ days between PWC and never reaching critical toxic levels) but for days because every time I add fish, I will have a spike even once I reach my initial cycle completion. Also, I will need to add fish slowly or risk a big spike.

Not soo much. Beneficial bacteria have the ability to temporarily increase production based on the amount of available food. Presuming you only add a small number of fish at a time you very likely won't see any spikes of ammonia or nitrite. Even if you do add a few too many fish, you can control the amount of ammonia being produced in the tank by reducing feedings.

So, options:
1. Fishless--shorter time, big Biofilter until fish are added and then bacteria die off. Not an option for me since I already have fish.
2. Lots of fish cycle--more toxic to fish daily, but shorter for owner. Once Biofilter established, it is done.
3. Few fish--less toxic for fish, more gradual toxic load. Longer for human to get full tank. Many spike plateaus along the way.

Someone critique my logic, please!

Option 1 - Yep

Option 2 - If you're keeping the ammonia no higher than 0.25ppm then the cycle will take the same amount of time regardless of how many fish are in the tank. The only difference is the number of water changes you have to do.

Option 3 - Explained above