Fishless cycle for freshwater tank?

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Kari

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I read the article for fishless cycling, but it was for a saltwater tank. What about for a freshwater tank? Can you cycle a freshwater tank without fish?
 
You can do exactly the same thing for FW as there isn't much of a difference between the two at the beginning. The process for FW usually takes 4-6 weeks.
 
Okay, next question...I just set up a new qt tank for the goldfish. It's a 5 gallon, and it's got a filter. I intend to add an air stone in the next couple weeks. I have a black moor that's been looking really raggedy lately, so I mainly set the qt tank up with him in mind. I put him and the other black moor in the new qt tank last night. Since I didn't do a fishless cycle (I asked about that for future reference), the best thing to cycle would be small, daily water changes? Maybe changing out a gallon per day?

Also, since it isn't cycled yet, and I'll be adding meds, if I'm doing small, daily water changes, how should I adjust the meds with that? I mean, should I add a small dose of the med each time I do a water change, or a full dose, or none until the med says to dose again?
 
Yes, small water changes are perfect...but not every day since you'll be using meds. You need a FW test kit to measure your parameters. Since gold's have been known to strive in uncycled tanks for years, I would only do one once weekly depending on your levels.

I would also medicate as per the directions.
 
Goldfish can tolerate the cycle very well. During my outdoor "pond" cycle, both of my red cap oranda's survived with ammonia peaking at nearly 2.5 ppm and nitrite up to 2 ppm. During both peaks, they didn't act much out of the ordinary (aside from breathing at the surface more). No side effects to this date.

During the cycle, you only need to change the water when absolutely needed. As Jchillin said, once weekly is all that is needed. Actually, I do every other week, unless the ammonia/nitrite levels jumps above 1 ppm.

Be cautious with the meds. If you have to use them, then you have to use them.... however, some meds will interrupt/stunt/even destroy the process [bacteria] of the cycle.

What are you trying to treat with the meds? It is probably better to try raising the water temp by 1-2F a day, up to 80-82F, and adding a minor dose of aquarium salt. This treatment works WONDERS on goldfish and will save you time, money, and possible some fish. ;)

As for the original question about the fishless cycle: Yes, you can do it. Again, as Jchillin said, it's roughly the same as for SW. You can use pure ammonia drops or raw shrimp... and possibly something else. With goldfish, however, if you keep a keen eye on your water parameters, you'll be fine using them to cycle.

Let us know if you need some more help.
 
Well, when the new med gets here, I'll be treating all my fish for internal parasites. That's something I've noticed in all the tanks and bowls at this point. My concern with Google is that he isn't thriving like Wally is. Google's stayed pretty puny, and he's also got some damaged fins that are pretty raggedy. For the fin damage I've added KanaPlex. I also think that his eyes aren't proportioned to his body properly, and that's causing him some problems with balance, but I don't think there's anything I can do for that, except try to get him healthy so his body will grow, and balance out.
 
Hmmmm. Treat for the internal parasites (if you're sure you have them).

For the damaged fins and the overall raggedy appearance, perhaps some good old TLC will do the trick. He doesn't have Fin Rot does he? Does Wally pick on Google at all (or does any other fish prior)? It may just be that he's growing to his surroundings. Since it appears that they are in a smaller tank, this may be the case. Also, when a fish establishes dominance, they ofter excrete a hormone that will keep other fish from growing too much, kind of like an assurance that he will always be the alpha. Aside from the fins, I wouldn't worry much about his size, unless he is picked on a lot.

The eye problem may be genetic. After all, the Moor eyes are genetic defects, breb purposely that way. It's not natural so it just may be a bad trait in his defective line.
 
Googles fins aren't clamped (I have a couple platies with clamped fins though, in another tank) Googles fins DO have the fin rot. I'm sure that at least a couple of the goldfish have intestinal parasites, and was intending to treat the whole tank. I'm thinking intestinal parasites because of the color of the feces from some of them, and I don't see many outward signs of any other problems, other than possibly some gill inflammation.

As far as Google getting picked on, I haven't really seen that. I know there are times that he just appears to be tired and is resting, and he kinda just hangs there in the water. In the tank I just moved him from, none of the other fish ever went after him, but when he would just hang in the water like that, the other fish would plow right into him, especially my biggest goldfish. It didn't seem like anything intended, Google just got in their way.
 
Sounds like you're on the right track with the meds then and also sounds like they need it. Things to look for (and you probably have seen, but haven't noticed):

1) White, stringy poop <-- Internal Parasite/Bacteria
2) Clamped fins <-- Usually an end stage of some disease. Typically not a good sign
3) Red streaks in the fins <-- Usually comes with an internal infection of some sort and is usually the end stages. Typically not a good sign. Of three instances I've seen this, all three fish have died within a couple of weeks. Can also be from ammonia toxification.
4) Dropsy <-- Hard to cure in goldfish, if not all fish. Scales will stick out like a pinecone due the body bloating. The bloating is often from the internal bacteria/parasite that is turning the inside of the fish to liquid or shutting down of the kidneys.
5) Pop-eye <-- Often comes with dropsy, but alone it can be cured. Of course, if you have a telescope fish (like a moore), then this may be normal or hard to spot.
6) Inflammed gills or anything of the sort (like you're already aware of) <-- this can be a lot of issues, but namely flukes and toxification. Flukes will come with flashing.
7) Little-to-no-movement; like laying on the bottom for lengths of time <-- This can be a sign that the fish is ready to pass, but more so when the fins are clamped. It may also mean that he is just tired, which could be due to lack of oxygen, toxification, stress, etc. This is a hard one to diagnose. In fact, one of my oranda's stayed at the bottom for nearly 2 weeks when introduced, yet he looked fine, didn't have clamped fins, ate, etc. He was just getting use to the new home. On the 3rd week, he was out and about.
8) Gasping at the surface <-- Goldies can get air from the surface, but it's not the best for them as it can lead to swim bladder disease. A cause could be stress, not enough oxygen, toxification, or a gill disease. Hard to diagnose.
9) Swim bladder disease <-- Fish will swim more odd than normal (fancies are already odd swimmers due to their deformation). Often, the standard pea feeding will fix this (due to constipation usually). If a steady pea treatment does not, then there really isn't much you can do. Serious (and rich) enthusiests have been known to perform surgery to place minute pieces of weight (rock) in the abdomen to try and correct the swimming.

Alright, I think I'm done for now. Those are the most common problems/diseases with goldfish to look out for. I've had experiences with most all and have cured just about all of them. Dropsy and the associated (red streaks) I have had a 0% success rate with so really keep an eye for this.

HTH!
 
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