Fishless cycle help....

[jlk]

Relax! Your cycle is actually progressing at a good pace for only 2 1/2 weeks into it! Fishless cycles do take quite a bit of patience and no two cycles are exactly the same. The seeded material did jumpstart your cycle- without it, you likely would not even have nitrites at this point in time. It can take 2-3wks (or longer) to see initial drops in ammonia when cycling from scratch. The nitrite>nitrate phase typically takes twice as long as the amm>nitrite phase. Lets see how your numbers look tonight & we can go from there!

 

[NJNewbie]

Relax! Your cycle is actually progressing at a good pace for only 2 1/2 weeks into it! Fishless cycles do take quite a bit of patience and no two cycles are exactly the same. The seeded material did jumpstart your cycle- without it, you likely would not even have nitrites at this point in time. It can take 2-3wks (or longer) to see initial drops in ammonia when cycling from scratch. The nitrite>nitrate phase typically takes twice as long as the amm>nitrite phase. Lets see how your numbers look tonight & we can go from there!

Thanks so much JLK...I'm so new to this and I thought adding the seeded material makes the cycle only like a week or 2.... But from what I hear on these boards you are the best at answering what to do on these cycles so I'm looking forward to your guidance and expertise and Stephen rollins has been my savor guiding me also the last week I'll be back around 4:00pm eastern time with my readings for today

 

[jlk]

Adding seeded material does definitely help but it does not guarentee an instantly or quickly cycled tank. Bacteria needs to develop everywhere & 4ppm of ammonia is ALOT of ammonia (way more than most fish will ever produce). It will take a bit for your bacteria to fully develop in order to be able to handle this dose. Yes, you can use cycled media to 'instantly' (for the most part but not always) cycle a tank to handle fish but it the amount media has to be proportionate to the amount of fish/bioload. Things are all relative to what your trying to accomplish.

 

[NJNewbie]

Today's readings, Thursday June 14th

Ammonia - .50 (yes only 2 days to drop)

NitrIte - 5.0+ Darker purple

NitrAte - 5.0

pH - 7.4-7.6 (7.4 on high pH test and 7.6 on regular pH test)

So I guess we would either give it one more day for the ammonia to drop to 0 or redose it back up to 4ppm today......I'll wait for the experts to tell me which way to go today.

 

[jlk]

Try this- just dose to 2ppm ammonia & lets see how your first set of bacteria handle it over 24hrs. I will give me better idea of whats going here (i try not mix up different cycling threads but it sometimes happens so this will help me as well). A few questions though so I have some background-what are your levels of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & ph for your tap water? Do you have city water or well water? What type of seeding material did you use/how much? Do you have other cycled tanks? Have you done any water changes yet? This will give me a better idea of what your working with! Thanks!

 

[NJNewbie]

Try this- just dose to 2ppm ammonia & lets see how your first set of bacteria handle it over 24hrs. I will give me better idea of whats going here (i try not mix up different cycling threads but it sometimes happens so this will help me as well). A few questions though so I have some background-what are your levels of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & ph for your tap water? Do you have city water or well water? What type of seeding material did you use/how much? Do you have other cycled tanks? Have you done any water changes yet? This will give me a better idea of what your working with! Thanks!

Ok my city water readings were
Ammonia -0
NitrIte - 0
NitrAte - 0
pH - between 7.4 and 7.6 ( get highest rating 7.6 on pH test and lowest reading 7.4 on high pH test)

The seeding material I used was a 3 inch by 6 inch filter pad bought from my LFS and put into a empty media cartridge in one of my 2 emperor 400's.

I have no other cycled tanks as this is my first fish tank ever.

No water changes as of yet.

Lastly I work evenings so I left the tank as is for now as I work from 6pm - 2am so I can dose the ammonia up to 2ppm tonight when I get home at 3am or just do that tomorrow at 4pm when I do my usual water tests. Whatever....let me know...and thanks for all the help

 

[jlk]

Thanks!! Do you have any idea how your lfs cycled the filter pad? Just wondering.... Anyway, stick to whatever dosing schedule you have been following so far (whether it's am or pm) and let us know how things look 24hrs from 2ppm dose.

 

[NJNewbie]

Jlk - no idea how my LFS cultured the pad.

Today's readings, Friday June 15th

Ammonia - 0
NitrIte -5+ darker purple
NitrAte -5
pH - 7.4-7.6

Ok so it takes 9 mL of ammonia to dose it up to 4. So I added 4.5mL of ammonia. Waited 30 minutes and retested and we have a 2.0ppm reading as you stated yesterday JLK...let's see what tomorrow brings....

 

[jlk]

Nothing personal against your lfs but I am a bit suspicious of how the seeded the filter pad. No big deal though! Keep us posted!!

 

[NJNewbie]

Nothing personal against your lfs but I am a bit suspicious of how the seeded the filter pad. No big deal though! Keep us posted!!

The only thing I know is they keep a bunch of these pads in their sump for their freshwater tanks and then people purchase them and they call them "Cultured pads"...Not bad..I only paid $3 for it.....

 

[NJNewbie]

Today's test results, Saturday June 16th

Ammonia - .25

NitrIte - 5.0+ dark purple

NitrAte - 10.0

pH - 7.4 - 7.6

Ok JLK what's the next step???? I would assume we should dose it up to 2.5ppm or 3ppm....but I'll wait for your expertise.... Let me know what to do

 

[jlk]

Dose 2 again. We want to see the ammonia atleast zero before increasing dose. Hopefully those nitrites will start dropping soon!

 

[NJNewbie]

Dose 2 again. We want to see the ammonia atleast zero before increasing dose. Hopefully those nitrites will start dropping soon!

JLK ok going to dose it back up to 2ppm. Quick question....those nitrites are so high I don't know if we will see them drop until after I do a partial water change. Remember I haven't done any PWCs as of yet so those nitrites have been 5.0+ for awhile now(first got a 5.0 reading on 6/6). 5.0 is the highest reading there is on the test so who knows how high they really are. It's a really dark purple that is higher than the 5.0 that the test reads....

 

[jlk]

Unfortunately, there isn't a 'high range' nitrite for home aquarium use. It would really help with fishless cycles!! So, we are left to do things the hard way.

Ok, that said, when you have some free time, I think it's time for a water change (s) to bring your nitrites down to a readable level. Do as close to 100% as you can manage. Make sure you temperature match & properly condition the new water. Wait 15mins or so after refilling & check your nitrites. Don't be surprised if they are still crazy high. Do another big wc & retest. You want to bring them down to an easily readable level (under 2ppm, preferably under 1). This unfortunately make take a few wcs. Let us know what you are able to get your nitrites down to & then redose to 2 & we will try to keep them under control as your cycle progresses. This doesn't have to be done today or tomorrow, but when you have time to do so!

 

[NJNewbie]

Unfortunately, there isn't a 'high range' nitrite for home aquarium use. It would really help with fishless cycles!! So, we are left to do things the hard way.

Ok, that said, when you have some free time, I think it's time for a water change (s) to bring your nitrites down to a readable level. Do as close to 100% as you can manage. Make sure you temperature match & properly condition the new water. Wait 15mins or so after refilling & check your nitrites. Don't be surprised if they are still crazy high. Do another big wc & retest. You want to bring them down to an easily readable level (under 2ppm, preferably under 1). This unfortunately make take a few wcs. Let us know what you are able to get your nitrites down to & then redose to 2 & we will try to keep them under control as your cycle progresses. This doesn't have to be done today or tomorrow, but when you have time to do so!

I'm confused....when I read The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling - Aquarium Advice it says keep dosing the ammonia up to 4ppm until the nitrites and nitrates are sky high...right now my nitrites may be sky high but my nitrates are only at 10.0 shouldn't I wait a few more days until I see the nitrates move up befor I do PWC to bring the nitrites and nitrates down to a readable level??? JLK you are the expert so i will do whatever you say....but I'm totally confused....

 

[jetajockey]

It's fine, just do as she says. The guide isn't meant to be the be-all/end-all of cycling, it's just a basic guide, and every situation is different so sometimes it helps to try different things.

 

[jlk]

Dont worry! As Jeta wonderfully stated, the guide is not set in stone. Its just intended to be that- a guide. The first time I tried a fishless cycle, Eco (who wrote the guide) had me doing crazy water changes because my tank stalled completely on nitrites. Since then, I have had fun experimenting with my qt tank (when its not in use) on what works/helps/doesnt work. Everybodys tanks are a bit different because everyone has a different water source & we only account for the most basic variables (amm, nitrite,nitrate, ph). Now, if everyone started with with RO/DI water & added exactly the same products, fishless cycles would be 'textbook' because everyone would have exactly the same water to start with. Does this help at all?

As I said previously, you dont have to do a water change right now. You are more than welcome to wait on doing this and we can see what happens. I would suggest though if nothing changes with your nitrites/nitrates over the next week, a water change will be necessary. Stick to dosing 2ppm for now. This will be easy to increase once your tank is processing nitrite to nitrate well.

 

[NJNewbie]

Dont worry! As Jeta wonderfully stated, the guide is not set in stone. Its just intended to be that- a guide. The first time I tried a fishless cycle, Eco (who wrote the guide) had me doing crazy water changes because my tank stalled completely on nitrites. Since then, I have had fun experimenting with my qt tank (when its not in use) on what works/helps/doesnt work. Everybodys tanks are a bit different because everyone has a different water source & we only account for the most basic variables (amm, nitrite,nitrate, ph). Now, if everyone started with with RO/DI water & added exactly the same products, fishless cycles would be 'textbook' because everyone would have exactly the same water to start with. Does this help at all?

As I said previously, you dont have to do a water change right now. You are more than welcome to wait on doing this and we can see what happens. I would suggest though if nothing changes with your nitrites/nitrates over the next week, a water change will be necessary. Stick to dosing 2ppm for now. This will be easy to increase once your tank is processing nitrite to nitrate well.

Thanks for all the help...I'm going to see what todays reading bring and then we'll go from there. If I need to do a water change I will do it....I'll test my water today around 1pm and I'll post and then if need be I can do the water changes befor I go to work at 5:30pm.....

 

[NJNewbie]

Today's readings, Saturday June 17th

Ammonia - .25

NitrIte - 5.0 + darker purple

NitrAte - 20.0

pH - 7.4-7.6

Ok so JLK ....100% Water change and a redose back to 2ppm right??? I am going to start draining the tank now......wish me luck

 

[NJNewbie]

Just a quick question after I drain and refill with conditioned water I wait for 15-25 minutes and test for nitrites right??? If not under 1 then do another 100% water change right???

Then once I have nitrites below 1 then redose back up the ammonia to 2ppm....

Just want to make sure this is what you want me to do....