Fishless Cycle Help!

[lindalovestony]

Hi All,

So I'm new to the forum, but I have been doing a lot of research to learn how to start/cycle my tank, I found Eco23s "The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling" and have been following it to guide me in cycling my 50gal Tank. I have not detected any Nitrite, Nitrate levels, and I'm really not sure as to how to proceed.

I recently bought a 50g brand new tank.
Filter: Penn-Plax Cascade 1000 Canister Filter (for upto 100gal), 265GPH
Thermometer: Aquatop GH-300W Aquarium Glass Submersible Heater, 300-Watt
AirPump: Tetra 77855 Whisper Air Pump (for 100gal)

1. As per the guide, I did the full tank setup, rocks/plants/etc
2. Added my airpump and it's turned up high. My temperate sits at around 28C.
3. My filter has carbon packs (the black stones), those biorings for bacteria growth, regular sponges (black ones and white ones)
4. I went to a specialized fish store in town and they took a sponge from their goldfish filter, they squeezed it into a bag, and that's my seeding material.
5. I also added 1 1.5-2" moss ball to my tank.
6. I bought pure ammonia, to make sure I shook the beejeezzzus out of it and it was like water (no bubbles etc), the bottle also says it's pure ammonia, no fragrances, etc. etc.
7. I added a pinch of fish food to my tank.
8. Filled up the tank and added dechlorinator Nutrafin AQUAPLUS (Tap Water Conditioner) as per the specifications.
9. I also added Nutrafin CYCLE - The fish store manager told me it was necessary, and it wasn't until later on that I read the guide, that it sort of contraindicated that so I'm not sure if that is my problem?
10. I started everything and the tank ran.

Ammonia Levels:

June 3 - Tank Started, added ammonia to 1ppm. Then 2hrs later added ammonia to 4-5ppm. Added some fish food too.

Starting Levels: pH 7.4-7.6, Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 5ppm.

June 4 - 4ppm
June 5 - 4ppm
June 6 - 2ppm (Added 1.5ml Ammonia = ~0.25ppm) I was afraid the ammonia would drop to 0.
June 7 - 2ppm (Added 1ml Ammonia)
June 8 - 2ppm (Added 1.5ml Ammonia)
June 8 Levels: pH 8.0, Ammonia 2ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 5ppm.
June 9 - 2ppm (Added some fish food)
June 10 - 2ppm (At this point I thought things had stopped so I did a 20% water change)

For the water change, I emptied 20% water with a clean rinsed container, then I stopped the filter and closed its valves.

I tested the current left over water: Nitrite 0ppm still. pH 8.2.

I added 20% water from the tap using a brand new hose, and I also added Nutrafin AQUAPLUS tap water conditioner as per specifications. This time I didn't add Nutrafin CYCLE.

I added 5ml ammonia = ~1.2ppm

June 11 - 2ppm (Added more fish food)
June 12 - 2ppm
June 13 - 2ppm (I accidently added 25mL Nutrafin CYCLE thinking it was AQUAPLUS tap water conditioner )
June 14 - 2ppm

June 14 Levels: Ammonia 2ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 5ppm, pH 8-8.2 (See Image)

So that's where I am at, I haven't added ammonia, I'm waiting for it to drop to 0.5ppm or 0.25ppm so at least I know it's working

But I don't know how to proceed. So my questions are:

Did I ruin my cycle by using nutrafin CYCLE?
Should I do a 75% water change because of it and start over?
Did I make any other mistakes along the way?
What are your suggestions and how should I proceed?

Any guidance would be appreciated. Thank you all for taking the time to read my post.

EDIT: The image shows todays readings JUNE 14: Ammonia at 2ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 5ppm, pH 8.2)

Linda

 

[Barliman]

Welcome to the joys (/sarc) of fishless cycling. I recently went through similar frustrations and doubts. From what you posted, I'd say your steps 1-8 were fine. I'm not sure about Nutrafin Cycle, never having used it. Bacterial cycle additives are controversial: I used Seachem's Stability and I'm sure it sped up my cycle, but there's no magic liquid I know of for instant cycling. (Not that you were expecting that, just that some people do.)

The advice I was given was to add enough ammonia to bring your test result to between 2-4PPM, then let it alone until it reaches zero again. Then add more ammonia to bring it to 2-4ppm, leave it alone until it reaches zero, &c.

You'll eventually get to a point where ammonia and then nitrites cycle to nitrates within 24 hours. That's when your cycle is ready. You don't need to add fish food -- the ammonia is all you need. Also, don't turn off your filter: you want the beneficial bacteria to colonize the filter media.

What I would do (and others may have different advice) is to restart your filter, test the water every day until ammonia reaches zero, then follow the pattern I described above.

Eventually, you'll get there.

 

[lindalovestony]

Hi Barliman! Thanks for your responce, so yeah I don't know about the CYCLE I'm thinking it was a mistake I made, not being informed, and will no longer be using it. I'm just afraid that that is the cause behind my cycle stalling or not working at all. Since the CYCLE product is supposed to get rid of harmful ammonia and nitrites to allow the immediate addition of fish.

I wasn't using it to expedite the process, I was just misguided by the pet store manager. I do want to create a natural self-functioning environment by going through this process for my fishiiiess

Also, just to clarify, the Filter is running, it had just been turned off while I did the water change.

So I took out water.
Stopped the filter.
Added water
Added water conditioning to remove chlorine etc.
Then after 20-30min I ran the filter.

I did this to make sure my bacteria (if any) wasn't killed or damaged by the addition of new tap water during my 20% water change.

Then I ran the filter, so it was only stopped during this whole process that day for about a half hour.

I'm trying my best to make sure everything goes well and I follow the guide as posted, but I'm no expert!

So I will definitely be cutting back on the fish food then, since it is not necessary.

Does anyone know or have anything to add in regards to the CYCLE product I added? I still think (although I hope not) that I made a mistake adding it, and it caused potential harm to my aquarium cycling.

 

[54seaweed]

This may help you understand what is going on
Tips and Tricks For Your Fastest Fishless Cycle! - Aquarium Advice

 

[lindalovestony]

Thank you for the link! While it certainly helped me further my understanding with the different bacterias and how they flourish I still have some uncertainty in wether or not adding CYCLE has affected my process.

I am going to purchase some pH down to add the necessary phosphates to the water and to bring down my pH from 8.2 to the recommended 7.5-7.6 ish. I'll also increase my temperature from 38C to the recommended 29-30C. ^.^

Hoping that will start giving me the results of a successful cycle!! I am so excited!

 

[lindalovestony]

So I found pH Down, unfortunately the only one available comes without phosphates

 

[lindalovestony]

So does anyone else have any comments in regards to wether or not CYCLE is hurting my process? Help!

 

[lindalovestony]

June 15 Update: Nothings changed!

Ammonia still 2ppm
Nitrites still 0ppm
Nitrates still 5ppm

I started this on June 2nd

Did I ruin my cycle? What should I do? Should I do a major water change, like 75% and start over? Help!!!

 

[lindalovestony]

Should I get more gross filter sponge media from my pet store? To add more seeding material? Is my pH maybe too high? Ahh!!!!

 

[Blueskytechnolo]

I followed/ am following the same article you did. I also like you added a bunch of API instant cycle to my tank. My ph is really low due to well water that is very acidic it comes out of the tap at 6.0 and after letting it sit overnight goes to 6.2. I have been at it now for 3 weeks in a planted tank. For the first 2 weeks my ammonia sat at 4 ppm. I ended up draining the tank and I changed my media from a cheap bio ring to better ones. They were a bit more porus. I added the water back and gave it a shot of prime. About 3 days later the ammonia was down to .25 ppm and my nitrites were pretty high. At that point I had no nitrates. A few days later, I started seeing nitrates. I continued dosing the ammonia to 4ppm and never let it go below 1ppm. Once the nitrites got to the point that they were off of the test (API Master kit), I did about a 90% water change. I gave it more prime and dosed the ammonia back to 4 ppm. I waited till the next day and tested again. The nitrites were still off of the test and nitrates were at 5 ppm. The ammonia was all gone. I did another drain and refill. I followed that regimen up until yesterday. I tested today and the 4ppm dose of ammonia was gone again. The nitrites were finally at 0ppm and the nitrates were still at 5 ppm. I dosed it again today with ammonia to 4ppm and ill see where it is tomorrow.

Throughout the process, I ran my bubbler 24/7 and my filter all of the time. The only time the filter and bubbler did not run was while doing the changes. I never turned up my heater because it is a cheap one that is pre-set to 76 degrees.

I hope this helps a little.

Ps. Test your tap water for nitrates. Also shake the 2nd bottle in the nitrate test till you can't shake it anymore. Also shake the test tube well once you get both nitrate bottles added.

 

[lindalovestony]

Hi Bluesky!

Thank you for the information! I must say I do feel a little relieve that I am on the same path you followed and am having the same issues. If you don't mind me asking, what is the make/brand of your new biorings? I am using FLUVAL BIOMAX I hope they're ok? I really didn't know much about biorings or cycling until I got everything and got home, literally hogged the computer for 8 hours to learn all this stuff lol!

So anywho! Due to my fumbles and stumbles, today is Day 1 version 2.0 I just did a 75% water change and added my water conditioner. Just waiting on the temperature to reach 28-29C, currently at 24C.

This time I also didn't fill the tank all the way to the top, to allow my filters return pipes to splash all along the entire water surface to increase oxygen.

Levels Before H2O Change: ammonia 2ppm, nitrite 0ppm, nitrate 5ppm, pH 8.4 (same as it's been for ever and ever and ever)
Levels After H2O Change: Ammonia 0.5ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 0ppm, pH 7.4

Dosing up Ammonia to 2ppm now, I read somewhere that smaller Ammonia doses are better or lead to faster progression, and will probably keep me sane...er.

I have ordered Stability and Prime (As TSS is not sold here) they will both come in the mail by tomorrow. So I will follow the instructions of Stability using a double dose, what are your thoughts on this? Have you used it before? Will keep you posted! Can't wait to make this work.

I'm going to try and get some more filter media/seeding material from my local fish store.

 

[Blueskytechnolo]

I have the same bio rings as you. As far as the ammonia dosing goes, I have always stuck to the 4 ppm because it is what the guide said. It really seemed to work well. The nitrites started spiking fairly quickly as the ammonia started dropping down. I have been excited, exhausted, aggravated, enthused, and overwhelmed by the whole process. My main problem was reading too many things. It seems like everyone does the cycle a bit different. As far as the stability and prime goes...

I use prime in my tank because it does remove some of the prominent metals in my well water. I don't have any chlorine in the water here. My water is very acidic and there are a lot of dissolved metals in it.

I do not know anything about stability. The people here on the forums will surely know and chime in on it.

As I said, I am new to this also and there are folks here that could do this in their sleep. The guide we have followed gets you there eventually. I think the biggest thing is the patience and waiting for it to happen.

With that being said, please do check your tap water for nitrates. That level seems a bit high not to see nitrites. When my nitrates hit 5ppm, The ammonia that i dosed to 4 ppm with disappeared overnight.

 

[Delapool]

Hi, I can't actually pick anything seriously wrong here. Bearing in mind that I have seen tanks take up to 2 months to cycle and that the initial stage is always very slow.

Some thoughts to check would be:

Dose as directed on water conditioner bottle. Over-dosing for some reason seems to slow process down.

Test tap water for ph, etc to get base reading. Let tap water sit in an open bottle for 24hrs to degas and retest ph to get a true reading.

Although rare, check a tap water report to make sure water is not high in heavy metals. Check if water conditioner makes heavy metals safe.

Do not remove any carbon inserts in filter. Yes, bacteria will be growing there but imo get cycle happening before worrying about that. If carbon is just a powder coating it's not a large part of filter anyways. Carbon will not lock up most minerals either.

I think the water change is a good idea to try.

Bacteria in a bottle is hit and miss. I do find it helpful, others don't. Very rarely (almost never) has it been thought to be interfering with the cycle process.

 

[lindalovestony]

Thank you both for your responces! Yes I did test my tap water, it does not contain Nitrites or Nitrates, I have a theory though. Initially I added CYCLE, and the ammonia was dropping from 4ppm to 2ppm in the first 2-3 days. So my thoughts are, the short acting CYCLE did that, because after that my readings stayed at 2ppm and that's why I thought that adding CYCLE had thrown me off track.

So I did the water change, and dosed conditioner accordingly. It cant hurt to try Stability I'll tell you if it works for me

But I think getting some more filter media tomorrow will probably be my greatest contributor.

Realistically, I'm already almost 2 weeks into the cycle process, since I just did a large water change, and I did originally add seeding material from filter media. So I'll just be patient and see how it works out.

I'm glad I'm not doing anything incorrectly though, and do tell me if I am!! I love learning all this stuff. TBH I've found the process of testing the water and playing around with the tank quite entertaining and exciting

I hope that the water change and the steps I've taken to stirr things up may work, just as you did Bluesky!

 

[lindalovestony]

About the heavy metals, I have actually never tested this nor know how? I have the API Master Test Kit for Freshwater. It tests low pH, high pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate only.

What would I use to test heavy metals?

 

[Blueskytechnolo]

in my case having well water, we had a company come out that specialized in wells. They have their own methods of testing. They gave us a report of the dissolved metals in ppm. I'm not suggesting you do that as it is very costly. Our tap water tasted horrible. If your water taste pretty decent then you really don't have to worry about that. If you feel that you must, I would start with a cheap kit like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Sensafe-480309-SenSafe-Heavy-Metals/dp/B002AGZXYA

 

[lindalovestony]

Oh I see, we have nice tasting tap water, it is neutral and safe to drink as is from the tap.

 

[Delapool]

We have an annual water report here to check but sometimes water companies will do something different for a week. I've had the tank water go very foggy after a water change (fish ok) right up to one thread where it was thought something in the tap water on that day of water change killed off half the tank.

Ph is a good starting check since you have that (plus any others suggested). Testing straight away and after 24hrs checks on any change. If ph goes lower into acidic then heavy metals can be more dissolved. I used to check tap ph once a month and now probably once a quarter, particularly as the seasons change.

A water conditioner that detoxifies heavy metals covers that though as these were just thoughts you could check on. I've yet to see a tank that doesn't cycle.

It is strange ammonia started to drop as you also got some starter bacteria culture from a shop filter? Did you change anything after that or did you see ammonia drop AND nitrites increase?

 

[Delapool]

Also I know it gets a bit tedious doing fish less cycling so this stocking advisor can be fun to play with:

http://www.aqadvisor.com

 

[lindalovestony]

Hi Delapool! To answer your question, no I never saw a Nitrite increase. Just Nitrate. I didn't change anything, I just tested daily.

My guess is, the CYCLE product I added, which is supposed to remove Ammonia and Nitrite to allow "instant" fish addition.

So I think as soon as the CYCLE wore off, because I did add the specified dosage (which is a 3 day process), I think that removed the ammonia to begin with. But it does not work to create a biofilter. It's just a quick fix, which I later learned.