Fishless cycle question

[majolo]

I've just set up my 55 gal FW tank, and I'm ready to start cycling. I want to do the fishless cycle and I've printed out the usual articles on it; I wanted to do the dead shrimp method.

The problem: my puny grocery store only stocks frozen cooked shrimp. However, they do have frozen raw scallops with no additives. So would these work all right? If so, how many (or what mass) should I use with a 55 gal tank?

Also, I will be seeding the filter with a bag of gravel from a friend's established tank. Is there a particular ammonia level I should wait for before getting the gravel? Thanks in advance.

 

[severum mama]

Since you are seeding your biofilter, I would skip the shrimp altogether, and go ahead and add some fish when you add the bag of old gravel. It will be a lot quicker and easier IMO than watching something rot in your tank- yuck! Keep in mind that you will have to stock lightly and add fish slowly at first. What fish are you planning to keep? Certain fish are much more hardy than others and would thus be better candidates for this method of cycling. If you can get some filter media or anything else from your friend, that would be great too. It doesn't have to fit in the filter, you can simply float it in the tank. Make sure you keep the old gravel wet (along with any media, etc. you may use) while you transport it to your new tank.

Your tank will not instantly cycle if you use this method, but it will cycle quickly. The last time I did this I was able to cycle a 55 gallon in 4 days with only 2 old Biowheels. Remember that you will need to keep your test kit handy. Test the water daily and be prepared to do water changes as necessary. Good luck!

 

[majolo]

Ok, good to hear. I'm planning on keeping: a school of glowlight tetras, a school of corys (whatever species the fish store has that looks good, since their selection varies), and one gourami (pearl or gold). Any of those good to start the cycle? (There may be a 4th species, but these 3 I'm sure of for now.)

Oh, and my friend has a UGF, so that is her filter medium. I thought I'd put it in my filter (AC 70/300) since I'm taking the carbon out anyway, as I've read recommended here. If I get more than fits in the filter, I'll put it in the tank too. Thanks again!

 

[severum mama]

Start with the glowlights I think. They are very hardy IME. Go ahead and add 5 or 6; make sure you don't overdo it. Wait on the gourami and the corys until your tank has cycled- ammonia and nitrites at 0, and nitrates at 10-20- and go slow once the tank has cycled. Keep testing your water. Expect to do some pwc's.
You don't need to put the gravel in your filter if you don't want to. It will be fine in a bag in your tank.
I love my glowlight tetras. They are hardy and very beautiful! They're also very calm and peaceful. I think you'll really like them. Keep us updated as your tank progresses!

 

[majolo]

Well, here's the progress: I picked up 6 glowlight tetras today. I did drip acclimation with them when I got home, with some occasional aeration/circulation from an air pump since it's almost an hour drive. They all seemed to take to my tank water fine, and so I added them to the tank.

Unfortunately my friend with the gravel seems to have had a memory lapse and I can't get a hold of her . As soon as I can (which will probably be tomorrow), I will seed the gravel from her tank, until then, the fish will have to make do with an old-fashioned cycle.

Two further little issues:

1. I watched the fish for about an hour after adding to the tank. Five of the six schooled up right away, but the sixth stayed away and when they would approach, he panics and zips across the tank. Other than that, he doesn't move much, and just hovers, "quivering" a little, and listing to one side a little. He seems visually fine except for the posture and behavior, and he's not gasping at the surface or sunk to the bottom. Just nerves?

2. When I got home I realized I have a nice green tinge to the tank (especially when viewed lengthwise), suspended algae I assume. I was surprised, since this is the darkest room in the house, with nearly no direct sunlight, and I've had the tank lights on a grand total of 10 minutes since filling. I just want to verify that this shouldn't hurt the fish (or the filter bacteria). If so, I will keep the room dark as I can, and worry about the algae once cycling is under control. Edit: forgot to mention that I have no real plants, if that's relevant.

Will be testing water daily, ready for PWC as necessary, and check back here tomorrow.

 

[severum mama]

You've added a small bioload, so I wouldn't worry too much about waiting until tomorrow to get a hold of that gravel. Of course, the sooner the better, so keep trying that friend of yours. Grab as much of her gravel as she will allow, you can always give it back later. Feed very sparingly; the less your fish eat, the less waste they will produce. Give your nervous tetra some time and hopefully it will be ok. Keep an eye on it for any signs of disease. Do you have hiding places set up in your tank? They will appreciate that. Regarding the algae, I haven't dealt with that specific issue, but I do know that it won't make any difference in your cycle. You're right, you can just worry about that after you get the cycle finished. Your fish won't care whether your tank has algae or not.
Can you do me a favor? I'm interested to see how long your tank takes to complete a cycle. Would you mind testing your water every day and posting the results here for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate until you're finished? I'm really interested to see how long it takes and I'm wondering how similar it will be to my last experience. I started my last 55 gallon with 6 flame tetras and 2 old Biowheels.

 

[majolo]

(Apologies if this double posts...)
The gravel showed up a few hours later, so no worries. I have three medium-to-large fake driftwood pieces and about a dozen plastic plants, so I hope they can find hiding places once they get to know the place. I realized I don't have any piece that's really cave-like, so I may look for something along those lines to add.

And I'd be happy to post my test results! The least I can do
Be back tomorrow.

 

[majolo]

Ok, first test results, from 8:30am:
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrites <0.3 ppm (lowest result, this test doesn't show a 0 on the card)
Nitrates 0 ppm.

Ammonia and nitrites tested with Tetratest Laborett liquid test kit, nitrates with API liquid test kit.

 

[majolo]

This morning, 8am, same readings.

 

[severum mama]

I've never used that Tetra brand kit, just the AP Master Test Kit. When I tested my 55, I found a small nitrite spike, about .25 ppm, on the second day. I did a pwc and found 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and about 10 nitrate on the 4th day. It would appear that your results are right on track with my own experience. I'd personally do a 25% pwc tonight and check the levels again tomorrow. It looks like your cycle will finish soon.

How's your nervous tetra?

 

[majolo]

Ok, I'll try that. The nervous one settled down after about 24 hours. Now they're all comfortable around each other and seem to be looking and acting fine. So the thing I should hope for in the next few days is positive nitrate with 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, right?

 

[severum mama]

Yes. At this point, you may not notice any ammonia spike since you seeded your biofilter when adding your fish. In your case, you'll probably see the ammonia stay at 0 and the nitrites drop off to 0, and when nitrates rise to 10-20 ppm you'll be done. Glad to hear your tetra is acting normal.

 

[majolo]

When you say "the nitrites drop off to 0," they probably are at 0. Remember, this test kit just has the 0 category marked as <0.3ppm, for some odd reason.

Well, I did the PWC late last night. Then this morning, I got:
Ammonia 0.25 ppm
Nitrite <0.3 ppm
Nitrate 0 ppm.

Not what I was hoping for. Is it possible I missed the cycle by not having a big enough bioload to feed the bacteria on the gravel? I'll double check that there's no ammonia in my tap water, though I'm pretty sure I checked that before.

My friend with the gravel is out of town for the week, so I can't get a second batch now. I think I'll get a bottle of Cycle and try that, I figure it can't hurt (BioSpira isn't stocked by any fish stores around here). What are the thresholds to trigger a water change? E.g., should I do another today for the ammonia?

 

[JRagg]

A lot of people tend to think cycle doesn't do much of anything. When listening to a LFS employee in my area, he said that it usually cuts about a week off of a 6 week cycle with fish. It really isn't too helpful.

Seeing detectable ammonia isn't something I would be too worried about. Just be ready to PWC if necessary, though hopefully the seed material will help out.

Most people say to PWC if ammonia goes between 0.5 to 1.0. By no means let it get over 1.0.

 

[majolo]

Okay, thanks. That saves me a trip. I'll keep a close eye on things.

 

[SCFatz]

Adding seeded material is a great way to bring around a new tank...but it doesn't mean no ammonia or nitrite spikes....it does however mean they won't be as large or last as long.

The bacteria is there...it just needs to multiply and that takes a little time.

Target .5 as the max for either 1.0 being the absolute max.

Keep in mind that the ammonia is a direct result of decaying fish food as well as fish waste.....both of which you decide how much there is in the tank with how much you feed.Keep the feedings light until the cycle completes.

 

[7Enigma]

One thing to add, while the algae (GW it sounds like from your description) is unsightly, it is helping your tank by consuming some ammonia. Don't pay any attention to it. I would also stir up the gravel (lightly, don't kick up too much dust) to make sure that you have a good evenly distributed bioload-capable substrate.

Also this would be a good time to fill an extra AquaClear baggy (or clean new pantyhose)with some of the gravel and use it as one of the inserts. This will help to speed the cycle greatly as it will have the most thorough and consistent flow. I would put the bag with gravel at the bottom (first insert), then the biomax beads as the second insert, and finally the sponge insert at the top. This will allow bacteria to migrate from the gravel onto the biomax beads and then onto the foam insert. After a couple weeks/months you can remove the gravel insert and put another foam pad in.

 

[majolo]

Thanks, will do.

Same readings this morning as yesterday.

 

[majolo]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I had said I would keep posting test results for reference (last readings posted were Aug. 15):

Since then:
Ammonia went to 0 the next day and has stayed there.
Nitrites started showing up positive on the 16th. They've stayed below 0.3 ppm, which is the 2nd color on my test chart, but if I had to guess I would estimate they might be edging towards 0.2 today. They still seem to be rising very slowly.
Nitrates have been 0 throughout.

Did a 25% PWC on the 20th. Fish have seemed fine throughout, although they lost a lot of color for about a day when I did that PWC.

 

[rich311k]

Those numbers look good. You will see nitrates soon. You are well on your way.

Do not stop doing PWCs when neeeded. You fish wont mind at all as long as temp and KH of change water is close to tank water.