Fishless Cycle; stuck on Nitrites

[IrishRich]

Started doing water changes again. Nitrites still through the roof every day. I am not even dosing with ammonia at all anymore. My tap has 1.0ppm so I figured the water changes every day is enough ammonia, but the nitrites just won't go down.

90% wcs done on:

10/15, 10/19, 10/20, 10/21, 10/23, 10/24, 10/30, 10/31

Nitrites readings still off the charts. Nitrates are barely there (yellow/orange color).

 

[jlk]

Ok-have you tested your tap water for nitrites? Thats the only thing i can think of here! If there are no nitrites in your tap, then send Eco a PM as Librarygirl suggested because im sure he will be able to give you some suggestions!!!!

 

[IrishRich]

One more update.

90-99% wcs (23 of them) done on:

10/15, 10/19, 10/20, 10/21, 10/23, 10/24, 10/30, 10/31, 11/1, 11/2, 11/3, 11/4, 11/5, 11/6, 11/7, 11/8, 11/9, 11/10 (2), 11/11 (2), 11/12 (2)

PH 7.8

tap water has 1-2 ammonia. It gets converted 2-3 hours after pwc. 0 nitrites in tap. 0 nitrates.

If I test 2-3 hours after, I have off the charts nitrites, like 20-40ppm nitrates and 0 ammonia. Then if I test like 6-8 hours, I have super dark purple insane levels nitrites, 5ppm nitrates (how do the nitrates go down? I don't get that) and 0 ammonia. Again, ph never changes, always 7.8, same as tap.

I've kept maticulous logs and taken pictures of the tests to make sure I am not losing my mind, etc. Really starting to regret fishless cycling since none of this seems to jive with what I read about it here.

EDIT: I want to add I use Prime as my dechlor. I capful each time I do a water change into the tank.

 

[librarygirl]

The nitrite phase is the longest of the phases but after a month of nitrites being high I would think by now you should be about finished. Your PH is good so a PH crash isn't the cause.

Are you using any bacteria boosters? What kind of substrate are you using?

 

[IrishRich]

The nitrite phase is the longest of the phases but after a month of nitrites being high I would think by now you should be about finished. Your PH is good so a PH crash isn't the cause.

Are you using any bacteria boosters? What kind of substrate are you using?

I don't remember the name brand, but it's gravel. It wasn't super cheap or anything, just run of the mill gravel.

No bacteria boosters (I thought they did not work from what I have read here, should I?)

 

[librarygirl]

I don't remember the name brand, but it's gravel. It wasn't super cheap or anything, just run of the mill gravel.

No bacteria boosters (I thought they did not work from what I have read here, should I?)

Nope. Just wanted to see if you were using them which might be causing the nitrites to remain high.

I'll keep thinking.....

 

[IrishRich]

I think I am not going to do any water changes for a week. If that fails, I am going to take everything out, clean it, replace the filter media and then start over using fish and seachem stabilizer. Because, this, obviously is not going to work. I tried "fishless cycling", but I guess it heavily depends on the water in your locality more than anything else, in order for it to work. It's the only variable not really accounted for. And something the test kits don't really test for, either.

I appreciate that people are trying to help, but I just don't think it is possible to do fishless cycling with my tap water, for whatever reason.

 

[eco23]

I think I am not going to do any water changes for a week. If that fails, I am going to take everything out, clean it, replace the filter media and then start over using fish and seachem stabilizer. Because, this, obviously is not going to work. I tried "fishless cycling", but I guess it heavily depends on the water in your locality more than anything else, in order for it to work. It's the only variable not really accounted for. And something the test kits don't really test for, either.

I appreciate that people are trying to help, but I just don't think it is possible to do fishless cycling with my tap water, for whatever reason.

Are you saying that you're not capable of bringing the no2 down even with water changes? As long as your tap water doesn't contain high levels...it scientifically and mathematically can be brought down. It's a simple matter of replacing the nitrIte rich water with fresh water that doesn't contain it. It may take several back-to-back changes if your levels are that high...but it's simply impossible to not be able to bring them down eventually.

If you don't think you're capable of fishless cycling with your tap water, what makes you think fish-in cycling is any different? It's the exact same process, only one uses the fish to produce ammonia, and the other uses a substitute form of pure ammonia.

Tossing the filter media would be the worst idea imaginable, regardless of whether you have fish or not...there's obviously tons of bacteria in there if you're having conversion.

 

[IrishRich]

Are you saying that you're not capable of bringing the no2 down even with water changes? As long as your tap water doesn't contain high levels...it scientifically and mathematically can be brought down. It's a simple matter of replacing the nitrIte rich water with fresh water that doesn't contain it. It may take several back-to-back changes if your levels are that high...but it's simply impossible to not be able to bring them down eventually.

If you don't think you're capable of fishless cycling with your tap water, what makes you think fish-in cycling is any different? It's the exact same process, only one uses the fish to produce ammonia, and the other uses a substitute form of pure ammonia.

Tossing the filter media would be the worst idea imaginable, regardless of whether you have fish or not...there's obviously tons of bacteria in there if you're having conversion.

Again, as I have stated; pretty clearly I thought?; I did 23 90-95% water changes over the course of 27 days because of a) the advice I received earlier in this thread and b) because the nitrites are through the roof.

This has done absolutely nothing, nada, zippo to the levels of nitrites.

The tap water has 0 nitrites in it, as I stated already.

I guess the impossible is happening? I am not a retard, nor am I lying. What I stated in this thread is exactly, to the T, what I have done and continue to do.

 

[eco23]

Again, as I have stated; pretty clearly I thought?; I did 23 90-95% water changes over the course of 27 days because of a) the advice I received earlier in this thread and b) because the nitrites are through the roof.

This has done absolutely nothing, nada, zippo to the levels of nitrites.

The tap water has 0 nitrites in it, as I stated already.

I guess the impossible is happening? I am not a retard, nor am I lying. What I stated in this thread is exactly, to the T, what I have done and continue to do.

I thought I also stated (pretty clearly) that it is a scientific impossibility that fresh water will not lower the no2 assuming the new water has no nitrIte in it.

As I said...it may take several immediate back-to-back large water changes to lower it. I understand it doesn't seem like it wants to budge...but according to the laws of science and mathematics...it will. Doing them over the course of a long period is different than doing them back-to-back. The levels are continuing to rise, so drawing out the pwc's will basically just keep you even.

Most likely, the no2 level is at toxic ranges and that is what is preventing your cycle from finishing. Drain the tank and refill a few times all at once (keep the media wet), and the no2 level will drop. I promise you.

 

[IrishRich]

I thought I also stated (pretty clearly) that it is a scientific impossibility that fresh water will not lower the no2 assuming the new water has no nitrIte in it.

My tap water has 0 nitrites; 1-2ppm ammonia. When I do my 95% water changes, and I test the water immeditaley afterwards, yes, there are 0 nitirites. 2-3 hours later, it is over 5ppm. Why would this happen?

As I said...it may take several immediate back-to-back large water changes to lower it.

When you say back to back, do you mean immediately following? I did 2 in each day the last 3 days and it has done nothing. I did 23 in 27 days (every day just about), it has not done anything.

I understand it doesn't seem like it wants to budge...but according to the laws of science and mathematics...it will.

ok, I guess. I am not sure what laws these are. I have been googling and asking absolutely tons of people about this for weeks on end now. The only thing I get is basically what you are saying but others on message boards, but nowhere I have able to get an aswer on why or how this is happening so far.

Doing them over the course of a long period is different than doing them back-to-back. The levels are continuing to rise, so drawing out the pwc's will basically just keep you even.

I am not sure how putting in a tank full of water, then emptying it out, back to back does anything? What is that doing? Where are are all these nitrites coming from? the filter, the gravel? on the items in the tank (fake plants, etc)?

I guess, logic would dictate, if I put in 1-2 ppm of ammonia it would produce 1-2ppm Nitrite, but I guess it does not? It must produce it at a much, much higher rate? Am I doomed since my tap water has that much ammonia? Where else is the nitrite coming from?

Most likely, the no2 level is at toxic ranges and that is what is preventing your cycle from finishing. Drain the tank and refill a few times all at once (keep the media wet), and the no2 level will drop. I promise you.

Ok, I can do like 10 100% water changes in a row, I guess, but before I do that, where is all this nitrite exactly? Would it be better to empty the tank and take everything but the filter media out and clean it and let it dry?

If I do back to back to back...etc. water changes, should I just keep the filter media in water? Not turn the filter on at all?

Thanks for your help, just trying to understand this, because it logically doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever, so I am assuming I am not understanding the nitrogen cycle or where the nitrites are, exactly.

 

[eco23]

My tap water has 0 nitrites; 1-2ppm ammonia. When I do my 95% water changes, and I test the water immeditaley afterwards, yes, there are 0 nitirites. 2-3 hours later, it is over 5ppm. Why would this happen?

When you say back to back, do you mean immediately following? I did 2 in each day the last 3 days and it has done nothing. I did 23 in 27 days (every day just about), it has not done anything.

ok, I guess. I am not sure what laws these are. I have been googling and asking absolutely tons of people about this for weeks on end now. The only thing I get is basically what you are saying but others on message boards, but nowhere I have able to get an aswer on why or how this is happening so far.

I am not sure how putting in a tank full of water, then emptying it out, back to back does anything? What is that doing? Where are are all these nitrites coming from? the filter, the gravel? on the items in the tank (fake plants, etc)?

I guess, logic would dictate, if I put in 1-2 ppm of ammonia it would produce 1-2ppm Nitrite, but I guess it does not? It must produce it at a much, much higher rate? Am I doomed since my tap water has that much ammonia? Where else is the nitrite coming from?

Ok, I can do like 10 100% water changes in a row, I guess, but before I do that, where is all this nitrite exactly? Would it be better to empty the tank and take everything but the filter media out and clean it and let it dry?

If I do back to back to back...etc. water changes, should I just keep the filter media in water? Not turn the filter on at all?

Thanks for your help, just trying to understand this, because it logically doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever, so I am assuming I am not understanding the nitrogen cycle or where the nitrites are, exactly.

Okay, you were stating it like the no2 wasn't coming down even with pwc's. As long as you are capable of dropping the no2 down with water changes, there's no need to do back to back changes...I misunderstood.

NitrIte and nitrAte are basically byproducts of the beneficial bacteria you're trying to colonize. To put it bluntly, the first type of bacteria eats ammonia and poos nitrIte. Then the second bacteria eats the nitrite and excretes nitrAte. It's a chemical, so it's not a living thing or something that's going to be stored in the tank other than in the water. If you drained 100% of the water you'd be removing 100% of the nitrIte from the tank...but the bacteria are still processing the ammonia it's already eaten so it will continue to produce more no2 until it has basically finished digesting it.

When cycling its not as simple as 1ppm of ammonia = 1ppm of no2, there's other things that have to be accounted for like lag time while the bacteria basically is digesting the ammo it's already consumed.

The simplest thing to do is drop your no2 once more, don't add ammonia (other than what's in the tap), and just let it sit for a while. The bacteria won't begin to starve for at least several days. Over those days it should give the no2 to no3 bacteria a chance to convert the nitrIte without being overwhelmed by the first type of bacteria which is creating the nitrIte.

I would let it sit for 3-4 days without touching it. You can test during that time if you want, but honestly I'd just forget about it for a while. On the fourth day, check it, and hopefully you'll have zero ammonia and zero no2. If not, we'll have to look at some other cause like contaminants which are damaging the bacteria. I'm assuming (sorry if you you already stated it), but you're dechlorinating your water before it is added to the tank?