Fishless Cycling Status

[SSGWJ]

This is my first attempt at fishless cycling... started 2 days ago on a 29G. My middle son had two fancy guppies in a 5 gallon tank (fully cycled for some time)... well they both died (of ich, I think). Since we won't be replacing the fish right away, I took about 3 cups of the gravel and put it in pantyhose for use in helping the 29G cycle. I also put the filter media inside my Fluval U3 internal for use in the 29 G. My initial water parameters before dosing ammonia were Ammonia 0.5 (don't quite understand this as my tap water reads 0PPM), N02 0.25, Nitrate 5.0, PH 8.3, Temp 78F. On Thursday I dosed the ammonia to 4PPM. Yesterday results were Ammonia 4PPM, N02 0.25, PH 8.2, Temp 88F. Today I tested, and I am at Ammonia 2PPM, N02 0.50, PH 7.9, Temp 88F. Why are my ammonia levels already dropping and NO2 rising? I thought it would take some time to see this result. If it falls to 1PPM tomorrow, I'll re-dose to 4PPM... I just wasn't expecting to see a drop this quickly. Could the substrate/filter media from the 5G be accelerating things that much? Other notes -- I've raised the temp to 88F because I understand that is beneficial during a fishless cycle (is that correct)... plus I want to leave the temp up to help accelerate the ich life cycle I may have transferred over from the 5G substrate. As a result, I probably won't add fish for over a month even if the cycle completes early to make sure I've killed the ich. Sorry for such a long message.

Scott

 

[librarygirl]

Hi and welcome to AA! Yes it's certainly possible (probable) that the filter media and substrate from the 5 is helping to seed the larger tank. It didn't cycle it fully of course (or you'd have 0 nitrite and dropping ammonia to 0) but it did kickstart things quite a bit. You're right in not stocking for a good month even if the tank cycles due to the Ich potentially being transferred to the new tank. Ich can't live without a host (fish) so a month should be enough time to kill it all. A temp at 88 is fine for a fishless cycle, the bacteria do like higher temps, just don't let it go above 90. I had mine set to 86 I believe. Anything over 75 and under 90 is fine though, I think. Good luck and if you have any further questions just ask!

 

[SSGWJ]

Thanks... i tested again this morning and I'm at NH3 1.5, N02 0.75, PH 7.8.

Should I dose to 4PPM again or should I wait until the Ammonia comes down to 1PPM.

Thanks!

Scott

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks... i tested again this morning and I'm at NH3 1.5, N02 0.75, PH 7.8.

Should I dose to 4PPM again or should I wait until the Ammonia comes down to 1PPM.

Thanks!

Scott

Doesn't matter, you could dose now if you wanted. If it's 1 or less you can redose; at 1.5 I'd say that's close enough. Just dose once in 24 hours even if you test it more than once per day.

 

[SSGWJ]

OK, so I didn't re-dose to 4PPM ammonia yesterday, decided to wait. Just got home from work and tested today. Ammonia still about 1.5PPM (maybe slightly lighter shade of green)... but the Nitrites have spiked to 5.0 PPM (or higher) from 0.75 yesterday. I'll re-test just to make sure. PH is up slightly to 8 PPM.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[SSGWJ]

Daily Log Updated

Day 1 9/29 - NH3 1.5, N02 0.25, N03 3.0, PH 8.3, Temp 78
Day 2 9/30 - NH3 4.0, N02 0.25, N03 3.0, PH 8.3, Temp 87
Day 3 10/1 - NH3 2.0, N02 0.50, N03 3.0, PH 7.9, Temp 88
Day 4 10/2 - NH3 2.0, N02 0.75, PH 7.8, Temp 88
Day 5 10/3 - NH3 1.5, N02 5.0+, PH 8.0, Temp 88
Day 6 10/4 - NH3 1.5, N02 5.0+, PH 8.1, Temp 88
Day 7 10/5 - NH3 0.25, N02 5.0+, PH 8.0, Temp 88 (Dosed NH3 to 4 PPM)
Day 8 10/6 - NH3 0, N02 5.0+, N03 7.0 PH 7.8, Temp 88

So based on these results, should I continue to re-dose to 4PPM Ammonia? It is now dropping to 0 overnight, but the Nitrites are still sky-high... however I tested N03 today for the first time since Saturday and it is up to 7.0 from 3.0. I don't really want to do a PWC, as I know eventually the Nitrites will drop overnight... seems like with re-dosing NH3 everyday I will be making it harder for this to occur. What should I do?

Thanks,
Scott

 

[Jacca]

I would do a pwc to get your nitrites down to readable level my to tanks are doing the same thing and I was advised by some very wise individuals on here to do a water change to get the levels down. I am gonna test mine when I get home hopefully everything will be moving along now.

 

[librarygirl]

Daily Log Updated

Day 1 9/29 - NH3 1.5, N02 0.25, N03 3.0, PH 8.3, Temp 78
Day 2 9/30 - NH3 4.0, N02 0.25, N03 3.0, PH 8.3, Temp 87
Day 3 10/1 - NH3 2.0, N02 0.50, N03 3.0, PH 7.9, Temp 88
Day 4 10/2 - NH3 2.0, N02 0.75, PH 7.8, Temp 88
Day 5 10/3 - NH3 1.5, N02 5.0+, PH 8.0, Temp 88
Day 6 10/4 - NH3 1.5, N02 5.0+, PH 8.1, Temp 88
Day 7 10/5 - NH3 0.25, N02 5.0+, PH 8.0, Temp 88 (Dosed NH3 to 4 PPM)
Day 8 10/6 - NH3 0, N02 5.0+, N03 7.0 PH 7.8, Temp 88

So based on these results, should I continue to re-dose to 4PPM Ammonia? It is now dropping to 0 overnight, but the Nitrites are still sky-high... however I tested N03 today for the first time since Saturday and it is up to 7.0 from 3.0. I don't really want to do a PWC, as I know eventually the Nitrites will drop overnight... seems like with re-dosing NH3 everyday I will be making it harder for this to occur. What should I do?

Thanks,
Scott

Yes continue dosing. You're looking very good for a week into the cycle! YOu dont' have to do a pwc if you don't want to, it isn't needed. No2 has only been off-chart for a few days; mine was off-chart for almost 3 weeks before it came down. The nitrite spike phase is the longer of the phases so just keep redosing and be patient. What test kit are you using? Is it strips?

 

[SSGWJ]

I'm using the API master test kit (liquid). Before doing a PWC, ill monitor the NO3 the next day or so and see if it continues to spike. I'm definitely further along a week in then I thought I would be. Thanks to all for your help... what a great forum. Ill continue to post updates.

 

[SSGWJ]

Day 9 10/7 - NH3 0, N02 5.0+, PH 7.9, Temp 88 (Dosed NH3 to 4PPM)
Day 10 10/8 - NH3 0, N02 5.0+, PH 7.2, Temp 88 (Dosed NH3 to 4PPM)

So I've had 4 days in a row of Ammonia dosing to 4PPM and then falling to 0 by morning. Today however... my PH crashed (mini-crash) from 7.9 to 7.2. The PH from my tap water (after sitting for 24 hours) is around 8.3. Is it time to give in and do a big water change or am I OK to wait and see if the PH continues to drop. Is this normal during a fishless cycle to see the PH drop substantially? I don't have any driftwood in the water. Thanks.

 

[eco23]

I'd do the big pwc. Anytime it drops significantly, it means the bacteria have consumed the alkalinity in the water and it needs to be replenished. Without the water change the pH will most likely continue to drop. One thing people don't realize is that the beneficial bacteria consume alkalinity in a very similar way that they consume ammonia / nitrIte. Without it the bacteria will not colonize and a cycle will stall.

Glad it sounds like things are going well . PH crashes often signify you're about at the finish line.

 

[SSGWJ]

Makes sense... Ill do at least 75% PWC tomorrow. Am I right in assuming that with a fully stocked tank the bioload would be much less than 4PPM, thus the PH would be less susceptible to a major crash?

 

[eco23]

Makes sense... Ill do at least 75% PWC tomorrow. Am I right in assuming that with a fully stocked tank the bioload would be much less than 4PPM, thus the PH would be less susceptible to a major crash?

In theory, yes...but if your water is semi-low in alkalinity it's important to have a healthy pwc schedule to ensure you're always refreshing the buffers which hold pH steady. Your pH isn't plummeting fast or hard enough that I'd be overly concerned, but it's always a good idea to keep an eye on it. I've found that once pH drops once...it tends to do it again.

 

[SSGWJ]

Day 11 10/9 - NH3 0, N02 5.0+, PH 7.4, Temp 88
Day 12 10/10 - NH3 0, N02 5.0+, N03 7.0, PH 7.8, Temp 88

So I never did the PWC, not because I didn't want to but because I wanted to see where the PH would stabilize on it's own. Well, the day after bottoming at 7.2 it was at 7.4 Sunday and back to 7.8 after testing just now. Are fluctuations like this normal? Ammonia is always at 0 when I test the PH. I'm still re-dosing to 4PPM everyday and it always falls to 0 overnight. I tested N03 today (7.0 PPM), and it hasn't increased since the last time I tested it (Saturday). I guess I'm just playing a waiting game now?

 

[librarygirl]

Yes normal, cycling can cause PH fluctuations. If they start falling again do a water change. They should stabilize once the tank cycles.

Yep, just keep redosing and waiting. The nitrite phase is the longest of the phases; mine were high for 2.5 weeks before they came down. Yours spiked about a week ago according to your log. They'll come down eventually, just give it a bit of time.

 

[SSGWJ]

So today my PH was down to 7.1 from 7.8 yesterday. Decided to do a PWC, ended up doing about 70%. Ammonia was still 0, and Nitrites 5.0+. I didn't test N03 and I re-dosed the Ammonia to 4PPM (7th day in a row) after the PWC. I'll re-test tomorrow night.

 

[SSGWJ]

24 Hours After 70% PWC -

Day 14 - NH3 0, N02 5.0+, N03 5, PH 7.4, Temp 88.

I was expecting my PH to be higher as I replaced 70% of the water with 8.3 PH aged tap water. Looks like it is falling again.

My tap water parameters are NH3 1.5, N02 0, N03 5, PH 8.3.

I also tested N02 with a mixture of 1.25ml tank water and 3.75ml tap water... the result was the same deep purple which would indicate that my readings are probably well over 20 PPM, even with the 70% PWC. Maybe the levels will start coming down next week.

 

[SSGWJ]

Day 15 - NH3 0, N02 5.0+, N03 5, PH 7.6, Temp 88
Day 16 - NH3 0, N02 5.0+, PH 7.7, Temp 84

Alright, starting to get a little frustrated here. My N02 levels are insane. Today I added 0.25ml of tank water and 4.75ml of tap water to API test tube for Nitrite test. Result was off the charts 5.0+, which would indicate at least 100 PPM Nitrite. Based on the sporadic Nitrate tests I've done, it doesn't appear that any conversion is taking place N02-N03. My tap water has 5.0 N03, and I've never really been much above that level. I didn't re-dose the Ammonia yesterday... I've already dosed to 4PPM 9 times (each time 3.5 ml of Ace brand Ammonia) So essentially @ 32 ml of Ammonia have been converted to N02 with no conversion to N03. I took the temp down to 84 degrees... I read somewhere that N02-N03 preferred cooler temp than NH3-N02. Does anyone know if that's correct? My main question now is whether or not the cycle is being stalled with such high N02 levels. Should I continue to dose daily or should I be doing massive PWC's (part of the reason I am doing fishless is to avoid the frequent PWC's)? Thanks.

 

[jlk]

It sounds like what i went through!!! My nitrite levels were INSANE and nothing was happening. VERY frustrating!!!!! Thanks to the GREAT advice here, i was able to successfully get things cycled. What worked (yes, i know it defeats the idea of fishless cycling & no water changes) for me was water changes. ALOT of back-breaking, large wcs (down to the gravel) in order to get my nitrites to a 'readable' level (2ppm). Then i dosed the amm back up to only 1-2ppm for a few days to allow things calm down. Followed by more wcs when nitrites got crazy again. In the end, it took about 9 days once i began the wcs for my tank to be completely cycled. I believe the crazy nitrite levels actually inhibit bacterial growth thus slowing (or stopping) cycling. Im not an expert here but im sure others can clarify this better! Dont despair!!!!!

 

[librarygirl]

Day 15 - NH3 0, N02 5.0+, N03 5, PH 7.6, Temp 88
Day 16 - NH3 0, N02 5.0+, PH 7.7, Temp 84

Alright, starting to get a little frustrated here. My N02 levels are insane. Today I added 0.25ml of tank water and 4.75ml of tap water to API test tube for Nitrite test. Result was off the charts 5.0+, which would indicate at least 100 PPM Nitrite. Based on the sporadic Nitrate tests I've done, it doesn't appear that any conversion is taking place N02-N03. My tap water has 5.0 N03, and I've never really been much above that level. I didn't re-dose the Ammonia yesterday... I've already dosed to 4PPM 9 times (each time 3.5 ml of Ace brand Ammonia) So essentially @ 32 ml of Ammonia have been converted to N02 with no conversion to N03. I took the temp down to 84 degrees... I read somewhere that N02-N03 preferred cooler temp than NH3-N02. Does anyone know if that's correct? My main question now is whether or not the cycle is being stalled with such high N02 levels. Should I continue to dose daily or should I be doing massive PWC's (part of the reason I am doing fishless is to avoid the frequent PWC's)? Thanks.

At this point I'd try doing some 100% water changes to get nitrite to a readable level on the test kit (<2 would be fine)--depending on how high nitrites are you may need to drain and refill the tank a few times. Just don't forget to use dechlorinator, match the temperature of the water as closely as you can (to not shock the bacteria with water that's too cold or hot), and keep your filter media wet through the process.

Once nitrites are somewhere you can read them on the test kit, redose ammonia to 1 for a few days and then go back to 4 (not longer than a few days though, otherwise the bacteria will start adjusting to the lower level), to see if the bacteria can catch up.