Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Freshwater > Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 05-23-2009, 01:44 PM   #1
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 117
Have nitrites but ammonia is not dropping

After about two weeks of cycling, I just started getting ammonia about 5 days ago. It has been rising every day, but the ammonia is staying at 4ppm. Is that a problem at all, or do I just keep testing that and once it starts to drop, then add a little more ammonia?
__________________

__________________
jm667 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 02:16 PM   #2
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: florida
Posts: 230
Send a message via AIM to thatmagicguy Send a message via Yahoo to thatmagicguy
Are you doing a fishless cYcle?
__________________

__________________
thatmagicguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 02:43 PM   #3
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 192
Get a piece of shrimp and call it a day. The ammonia will drop off once the nitrites take over. I had the same thing with my 110g tank. I would have ammonia that wouldn't change in PPM, then I would have no ammonia and high nitrites and etc. give it time.
__________________
jcmelski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 03:00 PM   #4
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 117
Yes its a fishless cycle. Ok, I just thought ammonia would go down when nitrites rose, but that makes sense then that it waits for it to take over more. I'll just keep an eye on it and keep testing it everyday.
__________________
jm667 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 03:37 PM   #5
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: florida
Posts: 230
Send a message via AIM to thatmagicguy Send a message via Yahoo to thatmagicguy
If you are arbitarily adding more ammonia daily then yes, nitrites will appear and ammonia will also continue to register. Some people add ammonia and stop adding it when nitrites appear. What some people lose sight of is that there are two unrelated types of bacteria involved. And when ammonia is no longer being added then the type that convert it to nitrite stop reproducing and even go away. Likewise, when nitrite rises and falls it doesn't guarantee that these types of bacteria are still present in numbers to support a new tank full of fish.

I contend that fishless cycling in most cases is a waste of time, it is haphazard in most cases and leads people to the false belief that a tank will at some premeasured point be ready to be populated by fish.

There is no data that has been presented to come up with a standard forumula that guarantees a certain level of each type of bacteria. Indeed, because these bacteria are very slow growing and that the growth is variable on other factors like temperature, hardness, oxygen level, and other factors, there can be no standard formula.

Many people fishless cycle and add a tank of fish, oblivious to the fact that their tank will continue to "cycle" and have ammonia and nitrite spikes, a situation that may occur in a new tank that is cycled with fish.

Fishless cycling, unless fully understood and very carefully analyzed is a waste of time and as I said, presents a false security that a tank will be able to be stocked at the end,,,at the end which doesn't exist, because cycling never ends.

Bill
__________________
thatmagicguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 04:36 PM   #6
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mgamer20o0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: so cali
Posts: 5,987
again going to have to disagree with you.

fishless cycle takes 4-6 weeks give or take. maybe you missed typed it?

Quote:
I just started getting ammonia about 5 days ago. It has been rising every day, but the ammonia is staying at 4ppm.
maybe it should have read nitrites? what are your nitrite readings? it takes time to build up so even if it just started showing up it might take a little time to cut the ammonia down.

Quote:

Fishless cycling, unless fully understood and very carefully analyzed is a waste of time and as I said, presents a false security that a tank will be able to be stocked at the end,,,at the end which doesn't exist, because cycling never ends.
yes the bio load will factor how much bacteria in there but still think its best then just dumping fish in a tank.
__________________
mgamer20o0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 08:47 PM   #7
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: florida
Posts: 230
Send a message via AIM to thatmagicguy Send a message via Yahoo to thatmagicguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgamer20o0 View Post
again going to have to disagree with you.

fishless cycle takes 4-6 weeks give or take. maybe you missed typed it?


maybe it should have read nitrites? what are your nitrite readings? it takes time to build up so even if it just started showing up it might take a little time to cut the ammonia down.



yes the bio load will factor how much bacteria in there but still think its best then just dumping fish in a tank.
Hi Gamer I was waiting for you to jump into this one. Lol.

A new tank, properly stocked and allowed to mature naturally should never see any levels of ammonia or nitrite approach anywhere near lethal and the tank will be far more stable than adding home use ammonia or dead shrimp in no predetermined doses for 6 weeks. I'd love to engage in a discussion. Bill
__________________
thatmagicguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 09:11 PM   #8
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mgamer20o0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: so cali
Posts: 5,987
lol we are going to have to start our own threads vs going back in all the others. lol
__________________
mgamer20o0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2009, 02:47 PM   #9
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 117
Well I think I understand the fishless cycle routine. I understand you can do it with fish, but you would have to change the water constantly to keep the ammonia from going over a lethal level, while doing a fishless cycle, you can just leave the ammonia level high until it starts to drop since it is not harming any fish. Am I correct? I also understand that you can't just dump a tankful of fish when it is complete, and just add a few at a time instead. I would imagine the cycle changes slightly each time more fish are added, but doing the fishless gets it going so you dont have to worry about changing the water constantly during the first few weeks, right? So why wouldn't you want to do a fishless cycle?
__________________
jm667 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2009, 02:59 PM   #10
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: florida
Posts: 230
Send a message via AIM to thatmagicguy Send a message via Yahoo to thatmagicguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm667 View Post
Well I think I understand the fishless cycle routine. I understand you can do it with fish, but you would have to change the water constantly to keep the ammonia from going over a lethal level, while doing a fishless cycle, you can just leave the ammonia level high until it starts to drop since it is not harming any fish. Am I correct? I also understand that you can't just dump a tankful of fish when it is complete, and just add a few at a time instead. I would imagine the cycle changes slightly each time more fish are added, but doing the fishless gets it going so you dont have to worry about changing the water constantly during the first few weeks, right? So why wouldn't you want to do a fishless cycle?
You can start a tank with fish, if it is stocked lightly and correctly the ammonia doesn't have to spike to any appreciable level, and you do not have to do water changes. Nor does the nitrites have to spike. If you set up a new tank and overstock it then yes, there might be problems.

Regarding fishless cycling, the same can be said. By triggering nitrifying bacteria with household ammonia and seeing subsequent nitrites and even nitrates it does not automatically mean you can dump a bunch of fish in either.

So if you are going to fishless cycle for 6-8 weeks or whatever the arbitrary recommendations are you should still lightly stock and slowly build up the tank population. All of which can be safely achieved without doing a fishless cycle.

Fishless cycling, in my opinion, is a waste of time. That doesn't mean people should not do it, certainly if it makes people happy go for it.

I have seen people fail at it because they have been led to believe that the resulting tank is ready to be fully stocked. I had to fix dozens of peoples' tanks after they came to my store after failing with fishless cycling after reading about it on line and not having a full understanding of what is going on in an aquarium.

Bill
__________________

__________________
thatmagicguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ammonia, nitrites

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ammonia or Nitrites in tap Blueiz Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 7 12-11-2009 01:18 PM
.5 ammonia, 5.0 nitrates and 0 nitrites??? robinp Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 7 04-14-2009 12:38 AM
No ammonia no nitrites and no nitrates?? exactionfigure Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 3 01-22-2006 05:47 PM
Ammonia Level not dropping to zero philthefish Saltwater Reef Aquaria 17 01-10-2006 08:48 PM
Ammonia level dropping, but Nitrite 5.0.... number2of7 Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started 1 01-01-2005 11:18 AM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.