Having problems cycling...

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JasonC

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
337
Location
Laurel, MD
So I'm trying to cycle my 20G tank, and I cant get my numbers to move. Stats are 20G sitting at about 76-78 degrees F, pH of 7.0, artificial planting, and using an albino bristlenose pleco and a dwarf gourami as starter fish. tank has had fish in it for appx. 1.5 weeks, and I have yet to see any movement of ammonia and nitrite levels.

Only two things I can think of... bad test kit being one... was a hand-me-down, and not sure of the age. Second is that the LFS gave me "brown water" (Essential bacteria cultue I am assuming) to seed the tank with during setup... tank ran fishless w/ this brown water for 3 days. Would this in essence bypass the cycling of the tank?

thanks!!
 
Seeding will work. Have you LFS test your water. Test both tap and tank for nitrates, if the nitrates are higher in the tank than you tap it is a good sign of a cycle.
 
Are you using a liquid test kit or strip test kit? API Freshwater Master kit is very good and reliable testing.

You won't find much bacteria in water. Bacteria live in the filter and on surfaces. What you want is used filter media, gravel, plants, decor. Make sure it's kept wet in the used tank water prior to adding it to your tank.

Cycling with fish is much slower than without. You'll need to do pwc's to keep the ammonia and nitrIte under .50ppm. Yes, water changes do slow down your cycle, but it also keeps your fish alive.

The only way to bypass a cycle is if you're using a filter that was hooked up to an established tank for about a month.
 
Are you using a liquid test kit or strip test kit? API Freshwater Master kit is very good and reliable testing.

You won't find much bacteria in water. Bacteria live in the filter and on surfaces. What you want is used filter media, gravel, plants, decor. Make sure it's kept wet in the used tank water prior to adding it to your tank.

Cycling with fish is much slower than without. You'll need to do pwc's to keep the ammonia and nitrIte under .50ppm. Yes, water changes do slow down your cycle, but it also keeps your fish alive.

The only way to bypass a cycle is if you're using a filter that was hooked up to an established tank for about a month.

Hi Alaris, Thanks for the info... the kit that I have is the one you mention, though the hand-me-down kit didnt have the NitrAte testing fluid in it. I will be picking up some probably tomorrow as I wont be getting out of work til late to get to the LFS in time.

Unfortunately, I did not know about the fishless cycle when I put everything together. Books that I had been studying all went through a "fished" process w/ 1 or 2 fish only.

That being said, my biggest concern is that I have yet to see the initial rise in either ammonia or nitrIte. I tested daily for the first week (from initial water maturation period), and have been testing every other the past week.

Thats why I was wondering if i had recieved enough benificial bacteria in the "brown water" (there was about 3 Tbsp of dark olive drab "sludge" that came with the water)? Either that, or do the ammonia/nitrIte testing supplies expire?

Any other ideas? Thanks again! I like this forum... very glad I stumbled in on it!
 
I should mention also that both fish are acting fine... not stressed, healthy appetities, and have adapted to their environment hansomley... no sign of poisoning.

I will let you all know what the NitrAte levels read as soon as i can get my hands on the testing fluid.
 
something i found somewhere else awhile ago.

Hello all. I have gone back & forth via email with API today, and they've given me some valuable information on the API Freshwater Master Test Kits. The original topic thread on concerns that I had about the test kit results are in a previous topic:

http://www.fishlore.com/Forum/1-gene...itrates.0.html

Basically, I was seeing nitrate test results yesterday that I found unbelievably low - zero - in an established tank.

I was very impressed with the quick responses I got from API, and my faith is restored in their test kits. I'll paste in the information from emails with API. Note - I was finally able to get a nitrate reading of 40 ppm after following their directions:

"Thank you very much for contacting us regarding our products. All of
your comments and questions are valuable. We use your feedback to
create the most effective line of aquarium and pond products available.

Your solutions are not expired. Each reagent bottle has a Lot # printed
on the bottle. The last four digits are the month and year of
manufacture. Example: Lot # 28A0102. This is a pH reagent manufactured
in January of 2002. Pond Care Wide Range pH, Ammonia, High Range pH,
Nitrate, Phosphate, Copper, Calcium and GH all last for three years.
Nitrite and kH will last for four years. Freshwater pH(low range) and
Pond Care Salt Level will last for five years. I would not trust these
kits after they have expired.

Liquid Nitrate Test Kits from any manufacturer can have a common problem
with their last test solution. For some companies, it is bottle number
3, but for us it is bottle number 2. One of the ingredients wants to
solidify out of liquid solution. If the test bottle sits for any period
of time, this can happen. If this does happen and the test is performed
without Bottle # 2 mixed properly, then you can get a falsely low
reading. I have never heard of falsely high readings with Nitrate Kits.
I would try tapping your Bottle # 2 a few times on a table or counter
top. This should loosen-up anything that has solidified. Then I would
shake this bottle for about 2-3 minutes, to really mix it up. Try the
test again and hopefully this will fix your problem. With regular weekly
usage, this bottle should only need to be shaken for 30-60 seconds.

Always check results at the recommended duration of time. Letting the
tubes sit longer can result in falsely high levels."

I then asked if heating the nitrate test solution #2 would help get the material back into solution and got this reply:

"I don't think heating is necessary, plus I don't want to degrade the
chemicals in any way. Tapping your Bottle # 2 a few times on a table or
counter top and then shaking should be adequate, but you will
immediately know with the next test."

I then asked if the proper way to match the colors was to place the test tube directly on the card, or back it up a bit, since the color can get a little darker when placed directly on the card. Since the gentleman was being so honest with me, in admitting that there could be a problem with their test solutions (or anyone else's) I thought it would be courteous to ask if I could share this information in the forums I read:

"You do touch the test tube to the color card.

It will be ok for you to share the Nitrate Test Information. It is a
problem that every manufacturer has and we are interested in the kit
working properly for the consumer. "

As I said, the nitrate test finally gave me an expected reading, and my faith is now restored in the test kits. And I am really impressed with any manufacturer that replies quickly, tells you that there could be a problem with their product, and tells you how to fix it!
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/showpost.php?p=895779&postcount=8
 
Was it old tank water or was it filter squeezings? You do need to verify your test kit or replace it. Then you will have a much better idea where you are.
 
Alaris, thanks for doing the legwork to dig up this older post! It is excellent information. I took a look at my test solutions, and they are all from 2000 and 2002. Looks like I'll be buying a whole new kit tonight.
 
I am assuming filter squeezings, as there was a large ammount of "heavy" solids in it... my LFS has a very neet, and very large central water filtration system for their tanks. I assume they could harvest this stuff all day long and never see a dent in their bio filtration.

I'll be retesting tonight... I'll let you all know how it goes... hope i didnt completely miss the cycle... was kinda looking forward to watching it go to work!
 
So... picked up a new test kit and here are the results:

pH 7.0, Ammonia 0ppm, NitrIte 0ppm, NitrAte 10ppm

did a vaccum and PWC (I was due for one anyways..) and then re-tested... new results were:

pH 7.2, Ammonia 0ppm, NitrIte 0ppm, NitrAte 6ppm (appx)

as requested I also tested the tap water and got the following:

pH 7.6, Ammonia 0ppm, NitrIte 0ppm, NitrAte 8ppm (appx)

So if I am seeing NitrAtes in both the tap and tank at relatively the same levels, did I cycle, or am I stalled? Wish that I wasnt playing with expired testing supplies from the start, so I could have seen and known I was on the right track... blah.

Any ideas?
 
More than likely you're not cycled since it seems that you got nitrAtes from your tap. I'd say go ahead and add an ammonia source and see what happens. If it goes to 0 in less than 24 hours and nitrItes are 0 and you see an increase in nitrAtes, then you're cycled. If the ammonia persists, then you're not.
 
Nitrate test kits cannot be trusted under 20ppm for the most part. SO take it with a grain of salt.

Keep testing daily to see if you get any changes, then after a week you should be able to tell whats going on.
 
Since there are 2 natural ammonia sources already in the tank, should I just let them do their thing for another week as I monitor, or are you suggesting adding ammonia to the tank. is there actually a way to do that w/out harming the fish?
 
Do not add ammonia to a tank with fish in it. Just monitor the levels and change as needed. I highly recommend taking a sample to an LFS for testing. It will help you verify your older kits.
 
The old kits have actually been discarded. All the numbers in the previous post were off a brand new kit with meticulous attention paid to the directions to make sure I was not screwing anything up. After the great information that Alaris provided re: expiration dates, I decided that I just didnt want to risk that the older kits may be giving false numbers.

I'll be doing another test tonight... I'll let you all know what happens.

Thanks again!
 
Its okay Alaris, I am just thankful that you all are willing to help.

So, tonights readings were virtually the same...
pH - 7.2, Ammonia and Nitrites at 0, and Nitrates at about 8.. (somewhere between 5 and 10).

Don't know what to think... tomorrow will make 2 weeks to the day that the 2 fish have been in the tank... first PWC was yesterday, and it was by no means clean... lots of gunk from the gravel... but with no raise in either Ammonia or Nitrites, is this tank hot to trot, or is the Nitrate level not rising something I should be concerned about?
 
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