I don't understand...

[jmcbubbles]

I let my 15gal tank just run the filter for a few weeks before I populated it last week with 7 neon tetras. Yesterday one of the tetras died and a couple of the others were looking a bit bloated, and someone told me about cycling the tank as it was probably an ammonia spike causing the trouble.

I bought a testing kit today and was very surprised to see that the water levels seem to be just right:
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate around 5 - 7 (it's a colour tester so not highly accurate)

The remaining fish do seem to be alright today they all look normal and they're all active, although they're hanging around a different part of the tank than normal. So does anyone have any other ideas about what caused the trouble? Or do ya think it was just one of those things.

The pH level is a bit high at around 9, would that cause any major problems? Is there anything I can do to bring it down or should I just monitor it over the next few days?

I'm gonna clean the gravel (cos there's some food debris lying around) and do a PWC, is there anything else I should be doing right now or am I okay...?

 

[jcarlilesiu]

There is no way to cycle your tank with out any ammonia forming matter. i.e. fish or raw shrimp, actual ammonia etc... Im guessing you arn't even seeing any ammonia from the new load yet. Im also assuming that the nitrate levels are due to what is existing your tap water. To test this theory, leave some water out in a bowl over night, test it in the morning and see if there are nitrates in it. Continue to monitor your water parameters, and should you see ammonia coming up, don't panic, just do a water change (matching temperature) once it gets close or exceeds .25 ppm.

I would also guess that your fish died to shock, weather it be transportation or inadequate acclimation. neon tetras aren't the hardiest of fish, and very often very hard to keep. You may consider populating with a very small school (maybe 3) of danios if they all die. Or in that case you may consider a fishless cycle process. When you bring fish home from the store don't just plunk them in the tank... I believe there are stickys in this forum on how to appropriately acclimate your fish. HTH

This improper acclimation could be the cause of death due to your high PH around 9. Most fish are very adaptable to a range of PHs if acclimated correctly. For now, I wouldn't worry about trying to adjust your PH as a steady PH is better than an optimum one. Somebody else can jump in if they want because 9 does seem a bit high.

 

[bosk1]

I can't say for sure whether 9 is too high, but I will say that I have never heard of ph that high. Also, it is my understanding that ph is logarythmic, so 9 seems way high. What I would recommend:
1. Buy the AP 4-in-1 test kit so you can make sure you are getting a good, accurate reading. You will use it over and over again throughout the life of your aquarium, and you will REALLY need it as you are cycling your tank, so it is a good investment.
2. If your ph is really that high, DO NOT use chemicals to lower it. There are more "natural" ways to do it. Others with more knowledge can probably offer more suggestions, but I would add some driftwood and peat moss.

As pointed out, it is very unlikely that your tank is cycled. There are lots of recent threads on the subject I would advise reading through. Monitor your ammonia and nitrite levels closely, and be prepared to do lots of water changes.

HTH, and best of luck! Don't be afraid to ask lots of questions.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

What kind of a test kit are you using? I agree, it's impossible to have an already cycled tank unless you used BioSpira or ran the filter on another tank for a few weeks.

 

[jmcbubbles]

The test kit I bought is the Interpet Easy Test - it tests the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and "pH broad range" as it calls it. The little booklet says that pH ranges from 0 - 14, with a neutral level of 7... it says the optimum level for an aquarium is 6.5 to 8.5... is that correct?

The kit is a colour kit though, so not very accurate, so I'll defo go and get the AP 4-in-1 kit - is that a strip test? And it tests all the relevant parameters above? Is that Drs Foster Smith the best place to order aquarium supplies from? It seems to be pretty popular...

As far as the cycle is concerned, I have been following the recent (somewhat controversial ) threads (Wayne started at the same time as me and is asking all the same questions I have, so that's handy ) so I do have a good idea about the cycle and how it works. As far as I can tell it should be okay from here on in, even with fish in for the cycle, because I can monitor and control the levels all the way through the cycle - right?

And I just wanted to say - I absolutely LOVE this forum, there are so many people who know so much, it's so great to have found somewhere to ask the questions. Thank you!!

 

[rich311k]

Get this test kit. it has everything you need at a good price.


http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=19383;category_id=2255

 

[bosk1]

Yup! That's the one. It is liquid reagents, not strips. And it tests ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph. I have found that it can be a bit difficult to read the differences in color for both nitrate and ammonia once you get up in the higher danger levels, but if you are that high, you are in trouble anyway. You at least know you are WAY too high.

 

[elliott_001]

The first test kit i used was the Interpet Easy Test, i later discovered that it was not very accurate, so i opted for the master kit that rich311k has just recommended to you, a much better kit.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I am another huge fan of the AP Master Test Kit. Big Al's is the only place that we order from. Their prices can not be beat, literally.

 

[7Enigma]

jmcbubbles, I've been following your threads and am concerned with this pH reading.

Could you please test your tap water for me? If you could test it immediately after taking it out of the faucet, but also let some sit for a while (overnight) that would be great. I have a really tough time imagining your tap is 9.0 as that is definately basic.

bosk1, you are indeed correct that pH is based on base 10 (log). For those of you that don't know a pH of 5 is 10 times! more acidic than a pH of 6. So if indeed you are at a pH of 9.0 in the tank, you are 15 times more basic than a pH of 7.5, which is normally recommended as a good place to be (barring this is a cichlid tank, or some other "odd" fish).

If your tap indicates it is very high, you definately need to find a natural way of lowering it. I can't remember which thread but at that pH I believe the majority of nitrifying bacteria are seriously hindered (or completely stop) in nitrogen uptake (ammonia and nitrIte).

I'm still surprised you don't see any ammonia however. When was the last time you added the stresszyme?

And I think a grav vac is a good idea, but aim for the food debris exclusively, as opposed to going over every inch of the gravel, so that if some beneficial bacteria have started to coat the gravel you don't lose them.

Just thought of a couple more questions: What is the tank temp? (do you have a heater?), Are you matching the temperature of the water to be added with the temp of the tank, and are you adding some dechlorinator to the water and mixing it a bit before adding to the tank?

Stresszyme as far as I know it is not a dechlorinator per se, it claims to have beneficial bacteria that will convert the chlorine to another form (nitrItes?). You might want to get an actual dechlorinator before your next PWC, as this could cause the fish to be harmed/die. Anyone know if the Stresszyme has anti-chlorine/chloramine properties? (Big Al's is kind of non-specific)

 

[7Enigma]

I am another huge fan of the AP Master Test Kit. Big Al's is the only place that we order from. Their prices can not be beat, literally.

Well, the OP is from Ireland, so he might be able to find better prices in his area. But on "our side of the pond" I completely agree with you.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

When he mentioned DF&S the thought never occured that he wasn't from the states.

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

The PH of 9 is a bit of a concern, what substrate are you using? did you use Dechlor in your water change?

Those are general questions, I wouldn't over-react until you get a decent PH test kit (those strips are horrible.) it could also be very hard water (did you have a hard time pushing the neon's into the water? )

The AP test kits are really good, not too sure where to get one in Ireland, but I'm sure they are there. Ebay might be a good idea if you have access to it. Lots of things comin from the UK.

Good luck with the neon's.

 

[jmcbubbles]

I'm actually a "she" everyone

Yeah it didn't occur to me either that all the sites people mention are US sites. I've found the website of a lfs actually just down the road from my work and they stock the AP kit, so I'll run down after work and get it. So I'll do another measurement this evening and see how it looks...

 

[7Enigma]

See, over here in the States, we use he to mean both he and she, so it doesn't take so long to always post he/she, or to use they (which sounds kind of wierd).

That was a joke, btw, and we apologize for the gender mistake....

 

[jmcbubbles]

Apology duly noted and accepted

 

[krap101]

i thought stress zyme had stress coat to keep less stress on the fish?

beneficial bacteria converts ammonia-nitrites-nitrates. stress zyme is a dechlorinator with some extra stress coat etc, but im not sure, since its kinda mixed, but some say stress coat stresses the fish because something with irritating the stress coat when its added?

if youve been using stress coat since you started the tank, it is possible your tank has been cycled? your strips may not be accurate, but if theres chloramine in your water, the dechlorinator probally took care of the chlorine, leaving the ammonia. this could have given a little time for the bacteria to grow.. maybe

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

stress zyme is a dechlorinator with some extra stress coat etc, but im not sure, since its kinda mixed, but some say stress coat stresses the fish because something with irritating the stress coat when its added?

StressCoat is Dechlor (and expensive at that for the 1ml/gal)
StressZyme is Enzyme's (or so they say) which are bacteria. I added it to my 75 when I set it up, but I already had a well seeded filter (running for 2+ years) and seeded substrate, figured it may help promote the bacteria to multiply, no high expectations.

Prime is the best dechlor, 1 500ml bottle will last you a very long time.
Biospira is the most recommended cycle aid around (aside from seeded media)