I hope you can stand another fishless cycling log...

[librarygirl]

I see why they call it "add and wait"

Well I've added....and now I'm waiting. And waiting.

Ok, maybe 12 days isn't a whole lot of time, I know it can take longer, but

So I checked the tank today:

ammo still at 4 ppm
no nitrites (still a bright blue, not a hint of purple)
no nitrates
ph about 7.6, maybe a tad deeper blue than the API card
high range ph 7.4 (maybe a shade lighter)

Heater set at about 84-85 F
Mercury in-tank thermometer reads 86-87 degrees F

And the tank looks just gross. Very cloudy. At about day 3 I put in one flake of finely ground fish food; a day later it was a bit cloudy. Now it seems more cloudy (if I remove the tank hood and look down from the top I can barely see the bottom). And it feels slimy in there: the tank walls, the plants (mostly silk but a couple of plastic), the decor. Just ick.

Is this normal? Should I just wait it out more or could something be wrong?

I think I'm cursed

 

[allaboutfish]

good luck

 

[WendiDell]

Try a 50% PWC, it can help get things moving again. Even with a 50% PWC you'll still have 2.0ppm Ammonia, so it won't set your cycling back if you decide to do the PWC.

 

[mommytron]

cloudy means YAY!!! that is a bacterial bloom you are witnessing. i wouldn't do a PWC just yet, instead i'd wait it out just a couple more days. the cloudy water means you are finally growing bacteria you're on the right track. if you don't notice a change in a day or two, do a PWC then try to get your ammonia to about 3ppm

 

[librarygirl]

Well it's day 16, 17? Still have very cloudy water, still no trates or trites

A few days ago I did do a pwc maybe 4 gallons (12 gal tank). Added another few drops of ammo. Looks like ammo is at about 2 now, maybe 3 but no more. Nitrites are still a light blue, no trace of purple at all. Nitrates still gold.

Should I just wait some more or drain the whole tank and start over? I know it can take a while but I was hoping that having had fish in the tank prior to going fishless would have done SOMETHING to speed the cycle along.

Maybe I'll be the first ever case where a tank never cycles.

 

[mommytron]

what kind of ammonia are you using?

2 weeks is not abnormally long to see nitrites rise and ammonia drop. you're in the middle of week 3 so if you don't see anything by the middle of week 4, then you should be worried.

 

[librarygirl]

what kind of ammonia are you using?

2 weeks is not abnormally long to see nitrites rise and ammonia drop. you're in the middle of week 3 so if you don't see anything by the middle of week 4, then you should be worried.

Thanks for the encouragement! It's just frustrating. If you add the time I had fish in the tank, it's been about 2 months and no trace of 'trates or 'trites. I just ordered an active seeded sponge filter from here . I figure it probably can't hurt at this point and the added filtration wouldn't be a bad thing in the long run either. Plus I can test it with the ammonia before putting fish in so it'll either speed things up or it won't. Hopefully it will! I still have to find a decent lfs here, though. I went to two so far and found dead fish in their tanks, fish gasping at the top, and ick in one tank (and these are aquarium shops, not large chain stores). I'm going to try one more this weekend. I'm still not sure what to put in the tank but I figure I can start researching that when I finally have some hint that the tank is cycling. And I need to test my tap for kh/gh. I guess I'll be busy this weekend lol

 

[mommytron]

what kind of ammonia are you using? my very first fishless cycle i had to tear down the entire tank, scrub everything, chuck some things, and start from scratch because i used scented ammonia might want to double check to make sure you're using the right ammonia before putting in the seed material. just in case

 

[librarygirl]

what kind of ammonia are you using? my very first fishless cycle i had to tear down the entire tank, scrub everything, chuck some things, and start from scratch because i used scented ammonia might want to double check to make sure you're using the right ammonia before putting in the seed material. just in case

Definitely pure ammonia from ACE hardware. The one at Walmart had surfectants in it. Home Depot didn't sell pure ammo. Went to ACE which is what everyone else seems to be using and it's the right stuff, just ammo and water in the ingredients and it didn't foam when I shook it. Thanks!

 

[librarygirl]

Something is finally happening, I think...

OK well I was running out of patience and heard really good things about "active" seeded sponge filters being sold from AngelsPlus So I ordered one a few days ago, shipped it Priority and it came yesterday.

I installed the sponge filter (I got the smallest size, 3", but it looks very large in my 12 gal lol), hooked it up to the air pump, etc. It came in some tank water so I poured most of that on top of my current filter pad and Biowheel, then put the rest in with the tank water.

I couldn't wait, so three hours after I added the filter I just tested for NitrItes. The tube wasn't purple but was darker blue than it's been so far, so I was cautiously optimistic.

This morning I just tested again, about 20 hours after I put the filter in:

• Ammo: 0.5 (a drop from 2-3 ppm that it was at yesterday before I added the filter) I just dosed it back up, waiting a few minutes before I test again to make sure the level isn't too high
• NitrAte: this is tricky; if I hold it AGAINST the card it matches 5.0, if I hover it over the card it's not quite that orange but definitely not yellow, so I'm guessing between 2.5 and 5.
• NitrITe: um, back to light blue, so zero I have no idea how this is happening. How can I have some nitrates, with ammo going down, and no nitrites? Or are they still not measurable? But shouldn't they be by now?
• Ph: about 7.6+, the blue is a shade darker than on the card (this has been holding steady every time I've tested so far)
• High range Ph: <7.6; maybe a shade lighter than the shade on the card, so my ph is probably around 7.5, which so far has been consistent save for a water change a week ago (that brought the PH down to about 6.6).

Ok, so ammo is starting to move, nitrAtes are starting to show, but no nitrItes yet? Is this possible? It's only been 20 hours so I'm hoping things will improve from here.

 

[WendiDell]

OK well I was running out of patience and heard really good things about "active" seeded sponge filters being sold from AngelsPlus So I ordered one a few days ago, shipped it Priority and it came yesterday.

I installed the sponge filter (I got the smallest size, 3", but it looks very large in my 12 gal lol), hooked it up to the air pump, etc. It came in some tank water so I poured most of that on top of my current filter pad and Biowheel, then put the rest in with the tank water.

I couldn't wait, so three hours after I added the filter I just tested for NitrItes. The tube wasn't purple but was darker blue than it's been so far, so I was cautiously optimistic.

This morning I just tested again, about 20 hours after I put the filter in:

• Ammo: 0.5 (a drop from 2-3 ppm that it was at yesterday before I added the filter) I just dosed it back up, waiting a few minutes before I test again to make sure the level isn't too high
• NitrAte: this is tricky; if I hold it AGAINST the card it matches 5.0, if I hover it over the card it's not quite that orange but definitely not yellow, so I'm guessing between 2.5 and 5.
• NitrITe: um, back to light blue, so zero I have no idea how this is happening. How can I have some nitrates, with ammo going down, and no nitrites? Or are they still not measurable? But shouldn't they be by now?
• Ph: about 7.6+, the blue is a shade darker than on the card (this has been holding steady every time I've tested so far)
• High range Ph: <7.6; maybe a shade lighter than the shade on the card, so my ph is probably around 7.5, which so far has been consistent save for a water change a week ago (that brought the PH down to about 6.6).

Ok, so ammo is starting to move, nitrAtes are starting to show, but no nitrItes yet? Is this possible? It's only been 20 hours so I'm hoping things will improve from here.

You may have had a small amout of nitrItes and the small amount of nitrAtes cleared them up. As long as the ammonia is going down and nitrAtes are going up, you are going in the right direction, finally.

For future referance I grow my own nitrAte seed materials in a 5g bucket. That way if I have to treat my tank with meds. I can get my tanks cycled again quickly. I also help local friends if they run into trouble.
It's very handy to have your own seed material available at all times.

 

[librarygirl]

I dosed the ammo back up to 4 after yesterday's test but now I'm wondering if that's too high.

Today's test results, almost 48 hours after installing seeded filter sponge (and 24 hours after yesterday's first test with the sponge; ammo had gone down to 0.5 so I dosed it back up yesterday):

• Ammo: about 4 (this is the issue with the API kit; if I hover it over the card, the color looks lighter and matches about 4, if I hold the tube AGAINST the card the color is darker; which is accurate?)
• NitrIte: still 0
• NitrAte: 2.5-5? If I hover it over the card, it looks in between 0 and 5. If I hold it against the card, it looks more like 5. Also the Gh/Kh kit says if you have trouble reading the colors to look down into the tube from the top. If I do this with the nitrate kit, it looks more reddish, like 40. But I'm guessing it's the color of the tube itself that's the reading we take? Ugh, why don't they make these blasted things less ambiguous.
• Ph: 7.6+++ darker blue than on the chart
• High range Ph: 7.4 or a shade lighter

I also have lots of foam on the top of my tank. Usually there has been many bubbles probably from the cranked up air stone and now the added bubbles from the sponge filter. But today it's FOAM. I am using the right ammo ( pic below, the ACE hardware, 10% ammonium hydroxide). is it just the added ammo reacting with the bubbles? Also my water is STILL cloudy, has been since day 3. If it were a bacterial bloom, shouldn't it have settled by now?

So any hopes of this tank cycling is going down the drain along with my confidence. Should I do a pwc to get the ammo down a bit or give it more time?

 

[Rosenweiss]

Huh... it looks like that ammonia has surfactants with how it's bubbling but I could be wrong... also, in my opinion hovering is more accurate. Otherwise you'll never get 0.

 

[librarygirl]

Huh... it looks like that ammonia has surfactants with how it's bubbling but I could be wrong... also, in my opinion hovering is more accurate. Otherwise you'll never get 0.

Thanks, the only ingredients listed on the ammo bottle are the ammonium hydroxide, not surfactants or dyes or perfumes. And I used it before and never got suds. Also it passes the shake test (bottle doesn't foam when shaken). Any other ideas? Should I do a pwc?

 

[Aspencer]

That is the same bottle that I use and now just finishing the fishless cycle.

 

[Rosenweiss]

Thanks, the only ingredients listed on the ammo bottle are the ammonium hydroxide, not surfactants or dyes or perfumes. And I used it before and never got suds. Also it passes the shake test (bottle doesn't foam when shaken). Any other ideas? Should I do a pwc?

I dunno. you don't really need to do a pwc, none of your levels are out of readable range. I guess if your seed material isn't working, then you'll just have to find different material or wait.

I assume it was wet when you received it?

 

[librarygirl]

I dunno. you don't really need to do a pwc, none of your levels are out of readable range. I guess if your seed material isn't working, then you'll just have to find different material or wait.

I assume it was wet when you received it?

Thanks. Yes it was wet and came with a couple of inches of tank water, which didn't cover the whole sponge but kept it wet. I was thinking of doing a pwc to see if the foam would dissipate. Also I'm wondering if dosing it back up to 4 was too high. I'm going to check levels again tonight when I get home and see what's happening.

 

[eco23]

Just to chime in here...that picture of the bubbles frightens me. That doesn't look at all like air bubbles...that looks foamy like detergent. Have you ever used detergent on anything in the tank? Did you wash the tank itself or any decorations with something like dish soap at any time? I'd take a cup of water, put a lid on it and shake it real good. See if water directly from the tank suds up.

 

[eco23]

Thanks. Yes it was wet and came with a couple of inches of tank water, which didn't cover the whole sponge but kept it wet. I was thinking of doing a pwc to see if the foam would dissipate. Also I'm wondering if dosing it back up to 4 was too high. I'm going to check levels again tonight when I get home and see what's happening.

Also, 4ppm isn't too high. It can be a bit of overkill..but that's what you want to accomplish when fishless cycling to ensure your tank can support the first group of fish. I'd keep dosing it up to that level. As long as those suds aren't a problem (I hope not), you should start seeing no2 in the next few days. It's not at all uncommon to see the nitrItes taking a few days to start showing up after the ammo starts dropping.

 

[librarygirl]

Just to chime in here...that picture of the bubbles frightens me. That doesn't look at all like air bubbles...that looks foamy like detergent. Have you ever used detergent on anything in the tank? Did you wash the tank itself or any decorations with something like dish soap at any time? I'd take a cup of water, put a lid on it and shake it real good. See if water directly from the tank suds up.

Thanks Eco! I'll try the water test you suggested. I've been wracking my brain and I haven't put anything in the tank other than the ammo and new sponge filter and I didn't wash anything. My hands haven't been in the water either (I use a small disposable 3 oz bathroom plastic cup to get some water for testing and just dip the cup in, don't touch the water with my hands, and use a clean cup every time).

I just got home and checked the tank and the foam is on one side, on the right, where the water comes out of the tank filter. Also many of my fake plants were uprooted and for now I just kept them that way until I'm ready for fish and I can aquascape a bit better (can't really see that well in the tank b/c of the milkiness of the water either lol) and the plants are all buched up on that side with the air stone, so maybe there's just too many bubbles on that side and nowhere for them to go? I'll disperse some of the plants and do that water test you suggested and see if that helps. Thank you again.