I know I am impatient re cycling, but gheesh!

[jenelle]

Welllll.... my little 15 gallon tank with a few fish in it is at a complete standstill in terms of cycling. Perhaps a watched kettle never boils?

I'm on Day 15. It's been at about .5 ppm ammonia, 7 pH, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates for about a week. I'm using Stability everyday but only recently did I discover I'm supposed to shake the heck out of the bottle. Could lack of vigorous shaking for previous 2 weeks be the problem?

 

[Gibberwatt]

I am not sure what Stability is, but generally, with fish juices, it is a good idea to shake the heck out of them.

Also, those tanks can sit forever without doing anything - my 15 sat for three months before it decided to do anything. Then it cycled itself in a week. Then I put fish in.

So I wouldn't worry if nothing happens for a little while. On the other hand, do you know a fish friend who lives near you? He/she might have a sponge impregnated with bacterias that you could borrow for a few days, kick start your cycle.

 

[ScotJudd]

The problem with cycling a tank with fish in is that you have to keep the ammonia low and temp as required. Tanks generally cycle quicker with ammonia at about 4ppm and temp up at about 30C. Beneficial bacteria is going to multiply extremely slowly otherwise. You need more patience with fish in cycling, using regular WCs to protect your fish.
Getting some loaded filter media to help seed your filter is a good option. Removing your fish (to a friend or LFS) and fishless cycling is another.
Bottled bacteria has a mixed press but I don't personally rate it.


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[jenelle]

Yep, I wish I had read up on cycling before I got started.... but it was a spur of the moment purchase.

Ammonia is up at about 1.0 ppm today according to API, but my SeaChem Ammonia alert reads half that amount because some of it is ammonium, not ammonia. 0 Nitrites, 0 Nitrates. Debating water change versus adding Prime, or not doing anything at all!

Unfortunately, I don't know anyone with a fish tank besides the store where I bought the tank.

 

[jenelle]

Oh, one more thing... I found a tiny snail in my tank today! It must have hitchhiked on a plant. Is that a good or bad thing??

 

[jenelle]

Oh, and the Amano Shrimp are doing an amazing job cleaning my plants. I love watching them go about their chores.

Now if the tank would just cycle I could get on with the fun stuff!!

 

[ScotJudd]

Hi Jenelle.
About the Ammonia, I would err on the side of safety and trust your API test results. I would do 50% WC but add prime until you are able to do so.
If the snail is a common pond snail, you might have to Google snail types to ID it, then remove it. They breed fast and damage plants. Many other snails, such as Malayan Trumpet Snails (MTS) do a good job in the tank and don't damage plants. If in doubt - remove it.
Glad you're enjoying your shrimp. I have a Red Cherry Shrimp colony in my display tank and they're fascinating and are the ultimate clean up crew. On a more dour note, I have not found any dead fish (rare anyway) but I have found a couple if skulls.
Good luck with the cycling. Persevere and be diligent with your water monitoring and WCs and your tank will cycle eventually. Then there'll be no stopping you.


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[candymancan]

Just add like 1/4 of a capful of prime every 24 hours until the tank cycles.. I wouldn't even bother with water changes all your going to do is remove the ammonia the bacteria need.. I removed my rocks and undergravel filter in a old cycled running tank my 27g hexagon I had 30 fish in it.. put new rocks in and the ammonia spiked t0 8.0 was probably higher..

I just put half a capful of prime in everyday for 4 weeks until it was cycled and I didn't have a single fish die.. not even my neons tetra's

 

[Sillyfishies]

Just add like 1/4 of a capful of prime every 24 hours until the tank cycles.. I wouldn't even bother with water changes all your going to do is remove the ammonia the bacteria need.. I removed my rocks and undergravel filter in a old cycled running tank my 27g hexagon I had 30 fish in it.. put new rocks in and the ammonia spiked t0 8.0 was probably higher..

I just put half a capful of prime in everyday for 4 weeks until it was cycled and I didn't have a single fish die.. not even my neons tetra's

Yes. Just torture your fish 4 weeks until your tank cycles. Who cares if they have internal injuries, they're alive.

 

[jenelle]

Hmmm, being a newbie, I'm not sure if you are doing wrong for the fish if you are using Prime to detoxify the ammonia and nitrites. Sounds like his fish did just fine.

There does seem to be some logic in the idea that if you constantly dilute the ammonia with water changes that you actually extend the cycle and the potential distress... but, on the other hand, I don't see how it's suffering if the pH is below 7 and you are using Prime (therefore, you would only have ammonium not ammonia before the nitrites).

NEVERTHELESS, I did do a water change today with Prime, and the Ammonia Alert is reading almost yellow (good). Will check the API test later. I also decided perhaps Stability isn't working so great for me, so I'm researching Fluval's Biological Enhancer - I bought a small bottle. I asked at one of the local pet stores today (not solely a fish store) if they would give me a squeeze from an established filter and they said yes, but I backed out of it when I saw some dead fish in their tanks... that can't be good.

I figured out an easier way to do water changes today: I went to Canadian Tire and bought fountain pump, which wasn't too expensive. I filled the bucket, treated it with prime, popped the fountain pump in the bucket, attached tube and whoosh, into my tank it went without messy icecream buckets dripping everywhere. Much better!!

 

[Sillyfishies]

Hmmm, being a newbie, I'm not sure if you are doing wrong for the fish if you are using Prime to detoxify the ammonia and nitrites. Sounds like his fish did just fine.

There does seem to be some logic in the idea that if you constantly dilute the ammonia with water changes that you actually extend the cycle and the potential distress... but, on the other hand, I don't see how it's suffering if the pH is below 7 and you are using Prime (therefore, you would only have ammonium not ammonia before the nitrites).

NEVERTHELESS, I did do a water change today with Prime, and the Ammonia Alert is reading almost yellow (good). Will check the API test later. I also decided perhaps Stability isn't working so great for me, so I'm researching Fluval's Biological Enhancer - I bought a small bottle. I asked at one of the local pet stores today (not solely a fish store) if they would give me a squeeze from an established filter and they said yes, but I backed out of it when I saw some dead fish in their tanks... that can't be good.

I figured out an easier way to do water changes today: I went to Canadian Tire and bought fountain pump, which wasn't too expensive. I filled the bucket, treated it with prime, popped the fountain pump in the bucket, attached tube and whoosh, into my tank it went without messy icecream buckets dripping everywhere. Much better!!

The fact is, is you aren't completely changing all the ammonia to ammonium. At first you change 1 ppm ammonia to ammonium. Then in 24 hours that ammonium is back to ammonia + the added, say 1 ppm of ammonia. So then you need to dose enough for 2 ppm of ammonia. And before you know it, you are dosing high concentrations of prime, which is not being taken out via waterchanges, so it's building up. Extremely unhealthy for fish. Also, prime doesn't actually detoxify nitrites. So then you're dealing with nitrites stressing your fish.

Nothing good in this hobby happens fast. Take a tip from me, throw the bacteria in a bottle away. The only stuff that works is Dr. Tims one and only (if you order it off their website, and that can be hit or miss) and BIO-Spira (again hit or miss). My cycle took 4 months and I did it fish in, with 5 cichlids, in a 30g tank. It was a huge mistake when I first got into the hobby. However, with frequent water changes I kept deadly toxins down.

 

[eddyk]

Have you tried Biolift products? Special Blend and Niteout II are awesome. Petco sells them, so does Amazon.

Speeds up any cycling or re-equalibrium process. It's stinky but works well.

 

[catface]

I'm new to this mytself but have done extensive research. It appears that your tank isn't cycling at all yet which is concerning! If ammonia is being consumed by the bacteria you want, you should see nitrites. And if the bacteria that consume that are there, you will see nitrAtes. These bacteria won't build up if you're doing water changes.

 

[Fresh2o]

Good call on backing out of the LFS media (seeing the dead fish in the tank). There are folks on this forum that supply established media (MrFisher for one). An online source is AngelsPlus.
I like the water change idea.
A little over two weeks into a fish in cycle and not seeing ammonia conversion is not unusual. Your priority at this point is keeping the fish healthy. The bacteria is secondary. Just keep up with the testing and water changes as needed.


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[Sillyfishies]

Good call on backing out of the LFS media (seeing the dead fish in the tank). There are folks on this forum that supply established media (MrFisher for one). An online source is AngelsPlus.
I like the water change idea.
A little over two weeks into a fish in cycle and not seeing ammonia conversion is not unusual. Your priority at this point is keeping the fish healthy. The bacteria is secondary. Just keep up with the testing and water changes as needed.


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+1. I'd even be willing to send you a seeded sponge

 

[jenelle]

Thanks for the offer to send me a squeeze - so kind - maybe I don't need it as my tests changed this morning, some good, some bad!

Ammonia .5
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5 - major change, always tested negative before
pH - 7.4

My pH is really confusing me. I can't figure out why it keeps climbing because I've been consistently adding API's pH down in half doses to stop it from rising - it tends to keep going over 7.0. This morning it is higher than ever! Yikes. I have aquarium wood (a special type of wood from Africa sold for tanks), instant aquarium substrate and plants. That's it. I know a high pH means the ammonia is more toxic, plus I've been told that plants need a pH of between 6.5 and 7.0 so I'm kind of worried about this.

Nonetheless, I did a little happy dance in my kitchen when I finally got a nitrate reading - doesn't that mean something is finally working??

 

[PB_Smith]

Yes if you are getting nitrate than you have the main bacteria present and they are starting to do their thing.
don't worry about the ph, at 7.4 it is perfect for 99.9% percent of fish and plants you will get, don't drive yourself crazy chasing numbers, especially ph. Remember there are the ideal, textbook parameters and then there is the real world. In the real world your ph is great.
wish I could get mine down to 7.4.

The most important thing to do now is nothing and just let it ride for a week and see how the parameters look. Don't worry about that reading on ammonia, it will settle itself within a day most likely.

 

[Sillyfishies]

Don't use any chemicals to alter your pH. The most important thing about pH is keeping it stable. So just let it settle without intervening

 

[jenelle]

Hi again,

I am so happy I have this forum to review my process with because no one in my family can figure out why I'm waving test tubes around all the time. They don't seem to have fish fever the way I do.

Tonight:
Between 0.5 and 1.0 ammonia
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5

I didn't test pH due to advice to do nothing about it.

Just hold tight with no water change tomorrow, right? Am worried water change may wipe out my very tentative low reading of nitrate. On other hand, don't want to harm fish. Should I add in some Prime tomorrow? Or could that wreck my BB too? It's like a suspense movie.

I can tell you one thing for absolutely for sure - when I get my dream Fluval 45 gallon bowfront I will NOT be doing a fish-in cycle.

 

[Mebbid]

Hi Jenelle.
About the Ammonia, I would err on the side of safety and trust your API test results. I would do 50% WC but add prime until you are able to do so.
If the snail is a common pond snail, you might have to Google snail types to ID it, then remove it. They breed fast and damage plants. Many other snails, such as Malayan Trumpet Snails (MTS) do a good job in the tank and don't damage plants. If in doubt - remove it.
Glad you're enjoying your shrimp. I have a Red Cherry Shrimp colony in my display tank and they're fascinating and are the ultimate clean up crew. On a more dour note, I have not found any dead fish (rare anyway) but I have found a couple if skulls.
Good luck with the cycling. Persevere and be diligent with your water monitoring and WCs and your tank will cycle eventually. Then there'll be no stopping you.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

Agreed, follow the api test resultsnover the pendant and you cant go wrong. If they were worth trusting more people in the hobby would be using it.

Just add like 1/4 of a capful of prime every 24 hours until the tank cycles.. I wouldn't even bother with water changes all your going to do is remove the ammonia the bacteria need.. I removed my rocks and undergravel filter in a old cycled running tank my 27g hexagon I had 30 fish in it.. put new rocks in and the ammonia spiked t0 8.0 was probably higher..

I just put half a capful of prime in everyday for 4 weeks until it was cycled and I didn't have a single fish die.. not even my neons tetra's

If theres any ammonia in the water at all then rheees plenty of food for the bacteria. Theres absolutely no reason to subject fish to deteriorating water quality when it takes 10 minures out of your day to do a water ch ange.

Have you tried Biolift products? Special Blend and Niteout II are awesome. Petco sells them, so does Amazon.

Speeds up any cycling or re-equalibrium process. It's stinky but works well.

Any bottled bacteria is suspicious at best. The vast majoritynof the time they do nothing at all.

I'm new to this mytself but have done extensive research. It appears that your tank isn't cycling at all yet which is concerning! If ammonia is being consumed by the bacteria you want, you should see nitrites. And if the bacteria that consume that are there, you will see nitrAtes. These bacteria won't build up if you're doing water changes.

Its usually a slow start and the water changes can be removing the nitrite and nitrate before they can register on a te st kit. Theres nothing to worry about just yet.

Thanks for the offer to send me a squeeze - so kind - maybe I don't need it as my tests changed this morning, some good, some bad!

Ammonia .5
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5 - major change, always tested negative before
pH - 7.4

My pH is really confusing me. I can't figure out why it keeps climbing because I've been consistently adding API's pH down in half doses to stop it from rising - it tends to keep going over 7.0. This morning it is higher than ever! Yikes. I have aquarium wood (a special type of wood from Africa sold for tanks), instant aquarium substrate and plants. That's it. I know a high pH means the ammonia is more toxic, plus I've been told that plants need a pH of between 6.5 and 7.0 so I'm kind of worried about this.

Nonetheless, I did a little happy dance in my kitchen when I finally got a nitrate reading - doesn't that mean something is finally working??

Nice on the change! Glad to see some results

Just go ahead and do a water change. It wont hurt anything.