I Made a Huge Mistake..Help!

[saa5886]

So my fiance and I had the random idea to get a fish tank the other day. I got on craigslist and found a great deal. 25 gallons, all the plants you could imagine, an air system, the top light, and all the food you could imagine...all for $50.

I met the lady, and she had been breeding Mollies in the tank for quite some time, but decided she wasnt interested anymore and needed the cash. She ended up seeming quite knowledgeable on the subject and I asked her how to get started.

She said first of all, I dont actually need a filter. She said that the way this tank was set up, it would essentially filter itself. Out of all the years she used it, she never used a filter.

She said she also never really changed her water out because it would shock the fish. She would instead go to the store, buy a gallon of distilled water, and change it out slowly, but not all at once.

She asked me what temperature I keep my apartment and I told her about 73, she said thats fine and I wouldnt need a heater as the temp of the water would match the outside temp. Right now the tank is at 76 degrees.

Anyway so I bought the tank, took it home and decided to start setup...
I filled it with water, used some water conditioner and waited til the next day.

24 hours later, I go to the store and get some ick guard just in case, some safestart, and some fish.
Well the problem is, no one had really warned me about what "shock" for a fish truly is. I had been warned not to put too many fish in at one time because they could go into shock... but I assumed shock meant they would freak out and die.

So, I thought to prevent this, I would add each fish slowly. By the time I got all 12 fish in, everything seemed fine. Didnt see any "shock". They were all eating and swimming happily...

Now its the next morning, and the tank is foggy white. So I googled it, and its apparently some kind of bacterial growth. (Thats actually what safestart is, a bacterial additive).

What do I need to do at this point?
I am dead broke because Ive spent so much money on the fish and the tank...

Any ideas?

 

[mfdrookie516]

Welcome to AA

If you read through the links in my signature, i think you may understand whats going on. Basically, you didnt cycle the tank and now you're experiencing what we call a bacteria bloom. You're going to need to test for ammonia and nitrite and keep those levels as low as possible by doing water changes (less than .5 ammonia, .25 nitrite... this may require 50% water changes daily or a couple times every day). You're not going to shock the fish by giving them clean water, you'll only shock them if the water youre using to replace what you take out is not very close in temp and ph (mainly) to what you took out. HTH

 

[Mark Hewitt]

So my fiance and I had the random idea to get a fish tank the other day. I got on craigslist and found a great deal. 25 gallons, all the plants you could imagine, an air system, the top light, and all the food you could imagine...all for $50.

No work!

I met the lady, and she had been breeding Mollies in the tank for quite some time, but decided she wasnt interested anymore and needed the cash. She ended up seeming quite knowledgeable on the subject and I asked her how to get started.

You are about to find out how wrong that was.

She said first of all, I dont actually need a filter.

Bzzt! Wrong! You will need a filter!

She said that the way this tank was set up, it would essentially filter itself. Out of all the years she used it, she never used a filter.

Bacteria will build up in the tank to allow some 'filtering' without a filter, but it's the equivalent of walking a tight rope above molten lava, it's going to end badly!

She said she also never really changed her water out because it would shock the fish. She would instead go to the store, buy a gallon of distilled water, and change it out slowly, but not all at once.

Wrong again. No need for distilled water, tap water with appropriate treatments is perfectly fine. Plus a gallon is nowhere near enough. Most here would be saying you need to change 25%-50% of the water every week.

The fish will be fine with that, in fact they'll love it!

She asked me what temperature I keep my apartment and I told her about 73, she said thats fine and I wouldnt need a heater as the temp of the water would match the outside temp. Right now the tank is at 76 degrees.

That's about right. But what about in the winter when you switch the heating off overnight? Fish like a constant temperature, and heaters aren't too expensive.

So, I thought to prevent this, I would add each fish slowly. By the time I got all 12 fish in, everything seemed fine. Didnt see any "shock". They were all eating and swimming happily...

Depends what you mean by slowly. Myself if I was putting 12 fish into a tank I'd do it over a period of about 4 - 6 months (not hours, days, weeks but months!)

Now its the next morning, and the tank is foggy white. So I googled it, and its apparently some kind of bacterial growth. (Thats actually what safestart is, a bacterial additive).

What do I need to do at this point?
I am dead broke because Ive spent so much money on the fish and the tank...

The only thing you can do at the moment, and you'll find it's the thing which cures 99% of all problems..

Water changes! Partial water changes to be precise. Without knowing your exact situation I'd suggest changing 25% of the water in the tank every day for a week and see how things go.

I know you're skint now too but an investment in a good test kit (i.e. not strips) would help you massively.

But more important than that, you are going to need a filter! No filter and you're going to watch your fish slowly die, I'm afraid. Even then filters take some time (up to 2 months) to get going properly, so it's going to be touch and go for a long while yet.

 

[saa5886]

Thanks for the quick response, but there is a part of me that understands where shes coming from. In nature, the fish dont have filters, so I guess I understand her thoughts. And since she bred them for years and never had a problem, apparently she was partly right.
On the other hand, no one ever explained to me what shock was. They just used the term. I assumed it was the same thing as what happens to a human!
Also, I have also had Mollies in the past, and this stuff never happened. I'll start the water changes. Thanks!

 

[saa5886]

hmmm so as I was looking into it apparently I have an undergravel filter...had no idea that was considered a filter since it doesnt appear to filter anything.
Next question is... is it ok that instead of gravel being over that, there are these 3 inch tall fake plants on the aquarium floor?

 

[DragonFish71]

In most cases in nature the fish have streams/rivers something constantly cycling fresh water. The sand, rocks, plants, tree roots and all that crap help to filter that water. Some swimming pool filter systems use sand as a filter media.

All fish need their water filtered. To not filter is cruel. How would you like to sit in a tub of your own wastes? Without proper filtration and regular tank maintenance, that's exactly what happens.


Now, when you say an "air system" was it a plate that sits in the bottom of the tank with tubes coming up?

 

[saa5886]

exactly

In most cases in nature the fish have streams/rivers something constantly cycling fresh water. The sand, rocks, plants, tree roots and all that crap help to filter that water. Some swimming pool filter systems use sand as a filter media.

All fish need their water filtered. To not filter is cruel. How would you like to sit in a tub of your own wastes? Without proper filtration and regular tank maintenance, that's exactly what happens.


Now, when you say an "air system" was it a plate that sits in the bottom of the tank with tubes coming up?

yes! thats exactly what it is

 

[DragonFish71]

Ok, scratch that question about a plate, you just posted it's an undergravel filter.

And yes, it is ok, they are made to be under the gravel. However most people perfer using different types of filters than UGF

 

[saa5886]

the way this lady had it set up was... she had the undergravel filter thing....with three inch plants carpeted above that. She said when the Mollies would have their babies, the babies could hide in those plants and not be eaten.

 

[saa5886]

I've also noticed as of this morning, one of my fish has white lips and isnt eating... could that be resolved with all these water changes?

 

[DragonFish71]

For the most part the plants will hide the fry (babies). Some will probably get eaten.

Lots of "breeders" go for the UGF filters or sponge filter so the fry don't get sucked up into the filter. While I'm not a breeder, I do have spawning fish and I use sponge filters and a power filter (also called a hang on back "HOB") with a piece of pantyhose covering the intake.

There's pros and cons for the UGFs. Yucky stuff (sludge) will build up under the plate over time, and having live plants can be a problem (though I have live plants with my UGFs without issues)

 

[DragonFish71]

I've also noticed as of this morning, one of my fish has white lips and isnt eating... could that be resolved with all these water changes?

Yes.

You really should read those links provided for you. What's happening is that you are cycling your tank with fish. Certain things need to be done in order for those fish to survive.

 

[jsoong]

That lady might not be too far off, but she definitely did not give you all the details ... or she didn't know all the details herself & somehow got lucky ....

At any rate, running a planted tank without filter is called the "Dutch method". This requires adequate light, lots of fast growing (and healthy) plants, and low bioload. Essentially, you are creating a complete eco-system where the fish is feeding the plants & the plants are removing fish waste. Google "natural aquarium" or "Dianna Walstad" to see some of the tanks in action. This method works, but requires good understanding of plants & fish, and is considered fairly advanced ... just throwing a bunch of plants & fish together prob won't work .....

ATM, since you already have fish, and they seemed to not be doing well, I would say that you have not got the tank set up right. It is prob too late to go Dutch (you need to get the plants well established before fish.) For now, I would suggest checking your water parameters & doign pwc's to keep the toxin's levels low. Fresh water won't hurt the fish. <Although depending on what the fish had, it might or might not help the illness.>

Your goal for now is to get the tank cycled without killing the fish. Do read all the links on cycling .... If you really want to attempt a non-filtered planted tank, you can do that after the cycle is completed. <But a standard filtered tank with weekly pwc is prob easier for beginners ....>

 

[Crepe]

I thought Dutch tanks were uber-high tech but planted heavily with stem tanks radiating from a off center point such that focus is drawn through lanes of color and leaf shapes. The tanks without filter are NPT or natural planted tanks I think and are pretty hard to balance and you'd have to put up with having algae always unless you get a muckload of anacharis and other fast growing plants.

The basic NPT consists of a topsoil and peat bottom layer covered by sand and planted very heavily with different fast growing plants. Most people choose plants and fish from the same biotope to make it a more natural setting.

I agree with the other posts in that you should start changing the water weekly with dechlor tap and get a test kit. The filter can come later as you already have a UGF.

 

[saa5886]

Neither of that applies because apparently I have an undergravel filter...and those carpeted plants are fake...
I went to the pet store, and they told me I needed a layer of gravel for that type of filter to work properly...so I got some and put that in...I posted another thread on how that went down lol

 

[jsoong]

I though "Dutch" and "Natural Planted" are one and the same ... but I may be wrong.

At any rate, without real plants, the point is moot.

UGF can be tricky to maintain .... you do need to clean under the plates somehow (either a small air line siphon, or take the thing apart every 6 months to a year & clean under) or you might run into trouble. That is one reason UGF's are out of favor.

 

[logansmomma1228]

Yes.

You really should read those links provided for you. What's happening is that you are cycling your tank with fish. Certain things need to be done in order for those fish to survive.

+1. This is a great site for good info. I suggest you start reading up on this stuff! That lady probably also had been keeping her tank like that for a while. Water changes can help a lot. You should also research any kind of fish you want to get IMO, so you can give them the best habitat possible. Good luck!

 

[Dan_Forbz]

jeez, you have had some bad luck, another thing you might be able to do is if you have any friends or even a good pet store, you can have them babysit the fish for you until you are able to get the tank right. i went into the pet store yesterday and asked the owner where he got some massive koi from and supposedly he babysits them and even can take fish back to help them get better if a tank isnt set up right , as i also saw with a large oscar that was not eating and laying on the bottom. so you can always ask if your fish can get babysat until your all properly set up