I think I really screwed up my tank by over-cleaning it

[Liopleurodon]

I'm sure this is a tired topic, but


I neglected my tanks for a few weeks. My sister was getting married and I had exams and I just fed them but didn't do much else. Previously, I'd been very good about doing frequent partial water changes.

I live near Toledo (where we've had major microcystin algae problems and so our water has tons of chlorine and my local fish shop recommended using 2-3 times the amount of treatment.) I trust these guys - they are a legit shop - not a big box store and have been around a long time.

ANYWAY, I really neglected my tanks and so when I did clean them, I'm sure I took out WAY more water than I should have. I even pumped some out, let the debris settle out and put some of it back in because I didn't want to completely cycle the tank but I wanted to vacuum out all the excess food and poo.

Overfeeding has ALWAYS been a problem since my kids want to "help" feed - but previously, I was just syphoning out 3-4 gallons every 5-8 days and replacing it. I have a filter rated for a 40 gallon tank and an air pump with a big air stone and my tank seemed to do well. My fish grew well and seemed healthy (well, the ones that didn't get eaten)

I took all my fish out and put them in a separate containter and vacuumed the heck out my tank. A changed the filter a few days later since I know you aren't supposed to change the filter the same day you do a water change.

So now I'm worried that I've really messed up the nice little ecosystem I had by overcleaning and wonder if I should have just done water changed every few day until I got it clean again.

My PH and Alkalinity are low but the other numbers look ok and the fish SEEM ok and the water looks clean and clear and smells normal (like fish but not stinky or unpleasant.

(We have really hard water so I have some drift wood in the tank - and that was the dirtiest of all. I took those out and washed them really well and then let them soak in heavily treated water before I put them back in.)


Other than the treatment for the chlorine, I don't use other chemicals in my water.

Did I screw up my tank? is there a way to know (other than all my fish dying?) what should I watch for? Did I just basically cycle my tank and now should just watch it and do frequent small water changes or do I need to take more aggressive action. I really don't want my fish to die.

 

[aclark]

Just keep an eye on you ammonia and nitrites. If you start to see them spike you probably caused a mini cycle. If nothing shows up within the next few days/next week I'd say you're ok and your BB survived the scrubbing.

 

[ImACoolguy]

I'd dare say but changing out the cartridge you threw out your cycle if you have no seeded media.

If you have media aside from the cartridge then you will have a mini cycle as said above and frequently test for levels off ammonia and nitrite.

I didn't see a test kit mentioned aside from pH and Alk do you have a liquid test kit?


Caleb

 

[Liopleurodon]

I just have the dip test strips and a color chart. I'll retest in a bit and post the actual numbers.

I'm new to the terminology so I'm not sure what you mean by media set aside from the cartidge. I understand the concept but not really as it applies to my set up. I just have a carbon filter and I replace it one a month. In the past, I've taken the whole think out and rinsed it and wiped it out. (my kids had REALLY been overfeeding them and it was full of filmy white stuff that waved around like kelp.) but this time, I just took out the old filter cartidge and dropped in a new one. I guess I need to read a lot more because I thought I knew more about what I was doing.


I'm happy to read up on it on my own, but if you know of a specific reference that you think would help, a link would be appreciated.

 

[Liopleurodon]

Ok, Aclark, so just watch the ammonia and nitrites? those all looked fine. Unfortunately, I didn't have any strips so I didn't test much before I went on a cleaning rampage. I'd been running around like a crazy person for weeks so I didn't plan much - I just went to town on the tank when I had a break. I'd thought I was doing a good job before since my tank seemed fine but after I messed with everything, I started worry and then I started to google and then I started to realized i knew nothing but the fact of my own noob-ness.

 

[ImACoolguy]

Test strips are pretty inaccurate. I'd get a liquid kit and you save a bunch of money if you look at the price difference vs strips. A liquid kit you can get 200 tests out of easy.

By media I mean anything like bio balls, disks, etc.. That stuff. They hold bacteria much like your cartridge does.

I would say you are likely just throwing out your cycle every cartridge you change.


Caleb

 

[Liopleurodon]

Maybe I don't have a good understanding of cycling or Perhaps I don't understand the care and cultivation of the beneficial bacteria.

I have a tetra whisper filter - i know its pretty basic but its what I have. I'm sure there are nicer things out there, but up until I neglected my tank for a while, my tank stayed nice and clean with just partial water changes (and maybe my very diligent Pleco)

So then that "bio-scrubber" pad inside would be the media? And the cartridge is the "bio-bag"- the white package with the carbon inside that you replace every month? I didn't clean, change or mess with filter at all during my cleaning. I just shut it off while i went to work on the tank.

Does the BB mostly live in the gravel? Or is it more in the water? Or is it mostly in the filter? I cleaned the tank and the gravel, but I didn't do anything to the filter. I've read that you can develop pockets of dangerous toxins in the gravel if you don't vacuum the tank and stir the gravel so the gravel is what I cleaned. I rinsed everything else and soaked it in clean, treated water, but I focused on getting the silt out of gravel.

A few days later, I replaced the carbon bio-bag but still i left the rest of the filter alone so maybe that means that I didn't disrupt my cycle as much as I thought? The water was sort of cloudy after my cleaning, but it became nice and clear after I put in a fresh bio bag cartridge. (it wasn't THAT cloudy, maybe 5% opacity in photoshop terms - but my water has always been very clear.)

I know that people who have big tanks often have two filters and replace them at different times so that they don't disrupt their cycle, but if you only have one, when you replace a part of your filter that one is supposed to replace, that doesn't cycle the tank, right?

 

[Fresh2o]

As long as you leave the bio-scrubber part alone, you should be fine changing the filter cartridge. But it is not necessary to change it so often. I think there are two ways of looking at it:
1. Not changing it regularly and periodically rinsing it in water removed during a water change. The BB (beneficial bacteria) in the cartridge are preserved and you save money on filter cartridges. But at some point it starts to fall apart and you have to eventually replace it.
2. Change it regularly. Yes, this pretty much wipes out any BB that develop in the cartridge. However, by changing it regularly, you don't give it a chance to host thriving colonies of BB. The BB can safely grow in the bio-scrubber in your case. It does cost more money.
BB live pretty much anywhere in the aquarium. The water column does not contain much BB. The filter has a high flow rate and offers lots of places for colonies to develop. Some filters only have the filter cartridge and no additional bio-media. Those filters IMO are more impacted when you change the cartridge.
Unless the gravel is deep, I would not worry about toxic (anaerobic) buildup. You can still gravel vacuum it periodically.
Hope this helps.


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[Nathan7378]

As long as you leave the bio-scrubber part alone, you should be fine changing the filter cartridge. But it is not necessary to change it so often. I think there are two ways of looking at it:
1. Not changing it regularly and periodically rinsing it in water removed during a water change. The BB (beneficial bacteria) in the cartridge are preserved and you save money on filter cartridges. But at some point it starts to fall apart and you have to eventually replace it.
2. Change it regularly. Yes, this pretty much wipes out any BB that develop in the cartridge. However, by changing it regularly, you don't give it a chance to host thriving colonies of BB. The BB can safely grow in the bio-scrubber in your case. It does cost more money.
BB live pretty much anywhere in the aquarium. The water column does not contain much BB. The filter has a high flow rate and offers lots of places for colonies to develop. Some filters only have the filter cartridge and no additional bio-media. Those filters IMO are more impacted when you change the cartridge.
Unless the gravel is deep, I would not worry about toxic (anaerobic) buildup. You can still gravel vacuum it periodically.
Hope this helps.


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Hello, my filter cartridge is falling apart and it needs to be changed. Its the only media in their, so it has pretty much all the BB. Do I just throw a new one in, or should I seed it with BB? How would I go about seeding it?


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[sinibotia]

Hello, my filter cartridge is falling apart and it needs to be changed. Its the only media in their, so it has pretty much all the BB. Do I just throw a new one in, or should I seed it with BB? How would I go about seeding it?


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Jam a new one in next to the old one for a while. After a few weeks, remove the old one and watch out for a mini cycle.

 

[smallfry53]

Maybe I don't have a good understanding of cycling or Perhaps I don't understand the care and cultivation of the beneficial bacteria.

I have a tetra whisper filter - i know its pretty basic but its what I have. I'm sure there are nicer things out there, but up until I neglected my tank for a while, my tank stayed nice and clean with just partial water changes (and maybe my very diligent Pleco)

So then that "bio-scrubber" pad inside would be the media? And the cartridge is the "bio-bag"- the white package with the carbon inside that you replace every month? I didn't clean, change or mess with filter at all during my cleaning. I just shut it off while i went to work on the tank.

Does the BB mostly live in the gravel? Or is it more in the water? Or is it mostly in the filter? I cleaned the tank and the gravel, but I didn't do anything to the filter. I've read that you can develop pockets of dangerous toxins in the gravel if you don't vacuum the tank and stir the gravel so the gravel is what I cleaned. I rinsed everything else and soaked it in clean, treated water, but I focused on getting the silt out of gravel.

A few days later, I replaced the carbon bio-bag but still i left the rest of the filter alone so maybe that means that I didn't disrupt my cycle as much as I thought? The water was sort of cloudy after my cleaning, but it became nice and clear after I put in a fresh bio bag cartridge. (it wasn't THAT cloudy, maybe 5% opacity in photoshop terms - but my water has always been very clear.)

I know that people who have big tanks often have two filters and replace them at different times so that they don't disrupt their cycle, but if you only have one, when you replace a part of your filter that one is supposed to replace, that doesn't cycle the tank, right?

Hi, I see that you are from Toledo. You are fortunate to have one of the best fish stores around near you. Not sure where you go now, but the folks at Trilby's Tropicals are really great. It kind of seems like your questions have been answered? but another great resource would be Trilby's. (sometimes it's just easier to talk to somebody in person). I used to live in Bowling Green and would there as often as I could. They were always great about giving advise.

 

[Nathan7378]

Jam a new one in next to the old one for a while. After a few weeks, remove the old one and watch out for a mini cycle.

Ok, the filter I have is small though. Would cutting a generous piece of the old filter floss and laying it on the new filter cartridge suffice? Thanks for the quick reply, it is very much appreciated.


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[Fresh2o]

Ok, the filter I have is small though. Would cutting a generous piece of the old filter floss and laying it on the new filter cartridge suffice? Thanks for the quick reply, it is very much appreciated.


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That will work.


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[Caliban07]

Maybe I don't have a good understanding of cycling or Perhaps I don't understand the care and cultivation of the beneficial bacteria.

I have a tetra whisper filter - i know its pretty basic but its what I have. I'm sure there are nicer things out there, but up until I neglected my tank for a while, my tank stayed nice and clean with just partial water changes (and maybe my very diligent Pleco)

So then that "bio-scrubber" pad inside would be the media? And the cartridge is the "bio-bag"- the white package with the carbon inside that you replace every month? I didn't clean, change or mess with filter at all during my cleaning. I just shut it off while i went to work on the tank.

Does the BB mostly live in the gravel? Or is it more in the water? Or is it mostly in the filter? I cleaned the tank and the gravel, but I didn't do anything to the filter. I've read that you can develop pockets of dangerous toxins in the gravel if you don't vacuum the tank and stir the gravel so the gravel is what I cleaned. I rinsed everything else and soaked it in clean, treated water, but I focused on getting the silt out of gravel.

A few days later, I replaced the carbon bio-bag but still i left the rest of the filter alone so maybe that means that I didn't disrupt my cycle as much as I thought? The water was sort of cloudy after my cleaning, but it became nice and clear after I put in a fresh bio bag cartridge. (it wasn't THAT cloudy, maybe 5% opacity in photoshop terms - but my water has always been very clear.)

I know that people who have big tanks often have two filters and replace them at different times so that they don't disrupt their cycle, but if you only have one, when you replace a part of your filter that one is supposed to replace, that doesn't cycle the tank, right?

Hi

The bacteria play an important role in keeping your fish safe from toxic compounds that form when organic material breaks down and when fish excrete urine or respire. It can take weeks for the bacteria to grow large enough to meet the demands of production. When the bacteria have finished 'nitrifying' toxic sources of nitrogen waste such as ammonia and nitrite the end product released is in the form of nitrate. Nitrate is toxic in high quantities. As mentioned you will need a liquid test kit to measure all these forms of nitrogen. When nitrates are what we consider high >40ppm we do a partial water change. The more water you change the more control you have over nitrates. Things that influence nitrate production are the amount or size of fish you have in your tank (if your tank is not large enough for the amount/size of fish you have nitrates will generate quickly) and the amount of food you feed (since food whether eaten or not will eventually become nitrate)

The bacteria responsible for this grow on all surface areas within the tank, a healthy portion of which will reside in the filter media. The media comes in many forms and is named as such for the biological meaning of a substance where an organism lives or is cultured.

Bacteria will culture any form of media that offers surface area. Because of the intimate pores and crevices found on things like sponges and ceramic rings, media contains many cubic feet of surface area for bacteria.

Mechanical media is media that is predominantly meant for capturing waste particles, sponges or floss. They still harbour lots of bacteria but will need rinsing once in a while to maintain its efficiency. Washing media in two water will destroy the bacteria so it's best to do it in water that has been removed as part of your water change.

Biological media is media who's predominant purpose is to offer surface are for bacterial growth I.e ceramic rings or bio balls.

Chemical media are things that remove certain unwanted chemicals like charcoal or zeolite. Poorly named as it doesn't normally contain a home for bacteria per se but it normally comes contained in or by a sponge or floss. it is designed to be replaced so it should never be used as the predominant media.

Vacuuming the gravel and cleaning the filters will help reduce nitrates and keep the tank cleaner. Live plants are a good form of filtration too as they remove sources of nitrogen and other elements that are released for growth which in turn supply oxygen and keep the tank cleaner.

Expect the water to cloud for half a day after heavy cleaning as disruption of the bacteria will cause a bacterial bloom. It settles when new surface area created by cleaning is filled. You shouldn't have any problems if this happens but it's always best to check ammonia when the water clouds.

If you have anymore questions please feel free to ask.


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[Caliban07]

Wow that post was from ages ago. My poor thumb!


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