i used ammonia with surfectant

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McLean

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Messages
15
Location
WA
ok so I thin k I'm all sorts of messed up over here. I started a fishless cycle about 10 days ago using what i thought was the right ammonia. A few days later i read rave reviews on another website about Seachem products so I ran out and bought some Stability and Prime. a few days later i added a couple white clouds because i was told that i should have some fish while using stability. I have since realized that the ammonia i put in on the first day contained surfectant.
This is a moderately planted tank and the ammonia levels have been staying around .4 ppm since i added stability and fish 4 days ago. No nitrites or nitrates happening yet.

How much trouble am I in and what should i do from here..?
 
Hi. welcome to the forum. If you have fish in the tank you are now doing a "fish in" cycle.

This means if you keep the fish in that you will have to keep the ammonia levels at below .25 or the fish will die.

My opinion is to return the fish and continue with your cycle MINUS the additives. I would do a LARGE water change and try to start over with either the correct ammonia, pure from Ace hardware or with a dead shrimp for your ammonia source. You don't need the fish AND ammonia.
 
i realize i'm stuck with a fish in cycle now. Nothing i can do about that. I guess my main concern is how harmful is the ammonia i used? Ive read mixed opinions from tearing down the whole set-up and scrub everything or just doing some major water changes. I have not dosed the tank with anything but stability and prime since the days following that first ammonia dose.
 
I would do some massive water changes and try to get the ammonia out of the system. The just continue as you were with the fish in this time. You know the deal then, it will take longer and require frequent water changes but it can be done. I would continue with using the prime though.

How big is the tank?
 
it is 25 gallon high. so if i can change the water enough to bring the ammonia level way down is it safe to assume the ammonia with surfectant is out of my tank? And what does this mean for my cycle? Instead of day 10, it sounds like i am back to day one after i change the water.
 
If you remove enough water you should be able to get the bad ammonia out of your system. And yeah, youre kinda starting from scratch now. Sorry. :-(

You could go extreme and take all the water out and rinse everything but I think that might be too much and you only dosed once with this ammonia right? So theres not that much in there to begin with I would think.
 
+1 with all of Carey's advice :). I'm with her on everything from the pwc's to avoiding the bacteria products.

Ammonia with surfactants is a complicated issue. I had a big write up about it on a different site, but that's a topic I really don't want to open a can of worms here about. We have enough of those about things like bacteria boosters on this site already, haha.

To put it simply, there's different forms of surfactants. Technically they're all "detergents" just based off how they work...but the kind used makes all the difference. There are some which basically have a "green" label attached to them and are harmless, they're made from tree extracts and related things. However, there are other surfactants which have anitmicrobial properties (one of the reasons they're added) and are actually a form of petroleum product. Different forms of these surfactants are used in everything from antibacterial soaps to spermicides. Others do no harm and simply help lift dirt off of surfaces.

Unfortunately, most bottles just say "surfactants" without any additional info of the souce. That's why the best rule of thumb is to avoid them entirely when using it in an aquarium.

Personally I'm borderline OCD and would probably have the thing outside with the garden hose...but I understand that's not always an option, and it would also completely reset your cycle back to the word go. If you stick it out...lots and lots and lots of pwc's would be a good idea, and I'd also maybe throw some carbon in there and hope it helps absorb any compounds which could (potentially, but not always) be in there.

Let us know how it goes :)
 
Here are the specifics.

25g High
Penguin biowheel HOB with aquaclear biomax added to empty cartridge space
Planted - 65w 5700k lighting
fertilized substrate with flourish tabs
ph 7.6
Ammo .4
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
 
if i had a yard and a hose i would be out there going to town on it already but i can just imagine my boyfriends head shaking if he came home from work to find me elbow deep in a dismantled tank. He has zero patience for the process (hence my decision to use Stability) and with my newfound obsession with aquarium articles / forums, daily regiment of testing etc I suspect he is carefully watching my mental stability as it is! hehe
 
since i cannot return the fish can someone point me in the direction of a good article/ thread for a fish-in cycle? I'm getting a little tired of messing this up and i"m pretty sure my fish are too.
 
McLean said:
since i cannot return the fish can someone point me in the direction of a good article/ thread for a fish-in cycle? I'm getting a little tired of messing this up and i"m pretty sure my fish are too.

The one I linked above is fantastic. It's (unfortunately) the most commonly linked article on the site. It will walk you right through it. Here it is again in case the link didn't go through before-
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...g-but-I-already-have-fish-What-now/Page2.html
 
You've gotten some good advice here. Read the article Eco linked; it'll help you through the process. Stop adding the ammonia (obviously) since there are fish in the tank. Do a massive water change to start with to get that ammonia out (as large as you can, just leave enough room at the bottom for the fish to swim); don't forget to add dechlorinator (Prime is best if you can get it) and match the temperature of the water with the water in the tank (you can do this by feeling both with your hand; sudden changes in temps can shock the fish). Get a good liquid test kit if you don't have one; the API Master kit is best (the strips are inaccurate and will cost more in the long-run). Test your water every day; any time ammonia and/or nitrite are over .25 do a water change to get them down as close to 0 as you can. Same with nitrate over 20. You'll be doing this for some weeks as the tank cycles; just be patient and don't add any more fish until the process is complete.
 
Thanks for the info i changed about 95% of the water and havent had any ammonia for the last couple days. I think it may be doing a silent cycle which is fine by me, i just wonder how I'll know its time to add more fish. With a silent cycle will i eventually see the nitrates go up to around 20ppm?
 
Since you understand the nitrogen cycle, I'd say you'll be fine. There's nothing harmful about doing a cycle with fish... unless you don't know what you're doing. Surfactants usually don't cause an issue in the very small amount that you added. I would just monitor your water parameters and do water changes as needed.
 
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