Is "River Water" better?

[Big Ben]

Renosteinke,
you will need to change more then 3 gals at a time to keep up with the ammonia spike being produced from the fish's waste. 3 gals is just about 10% of your tanks total volume.

If your ammonia becomes higher then 0.5 ppm you should change anywhere from 15-50% of your water, depending on how much over the ammonia ppm is. The other members had stated this already, but im glad to hear u got it down now.

Right now u should immediately do a 50% water change. Im not sure how long it would take to get an accurate reading of ammonia after doing this, maybe someone else can say how long to wait.

For now I can only guess you should wait about an hour then test again. If its still too high I would suggest doing another big water change but maybe not 50%. Maybe someone else with more experience can toss their hat into the ring on this.

Having those plants in the pond should help with the cycle, as I beleive I heard somewhere that beneficial bacteria will be on live plants. This is good to hear, because I know a heated aquariums cycle can take a long time and i can imagine with coldwater that the bacteria would more then likely multiply at a much more slow rate.

keep on doing water changes as needed to keep ur levels at 0.5 ppm for both ammonia and nitrite.. Dont worry about nitrate as it becomes dangerous at a higher level then ammonia and nitrite, i think around 50 ppm and higher is too high, but again someone else should add their input as im not sure of this exact number.

once the ammonia readings are showing 0 24 hours after they showed ammonia, the first part of the cycle is complete. The nirite will then spike so u gotta keep on top of thosee water changes. good airation helps to keep the fish alive at this stage. once the nitrite is 0 after 24 hours, ur good to go and the cycle is over.


This could be a lengthy process and its tough to get through i know, mine took a good month. If i had known I could boost the cycle with an established tank it wouldve been alot easier.

You could be having to do this for a while. The only alternatives I can think of to speed things up are if you obtain some bacteria from an established tank.

or

Im not sure if you can return feeders, but another alternative would be to do that and do a fishless cycle. Youd have to read up on how to do this, but it isnt that difficult and u dont have to worry about levels being too high as much because theres no fish being exposed to it. I think theres an article posted somwere on a sticky in this forum, maybe som1 has a link?

i hope i didnt forget anything. goodluck and let us kno how things r going.

heres a graph to give an overall idea of what to expect. the timeline will vary and will be different, either more slow/fast depending on how much bacteria is added to boost the process and the water temperature. this would be what would happen if u didnt do any water changes. your goal is to keep the levels in the light blue area. sorry that its in french, i have french settings. ammoniac=ammonia, etc. (most scientific words in french are similar to english)

 

[rkilling1]

Good luck with everything renosteinke. I understand about all the misinformation you are receiving from everyone (petstore, forums, ect). We all were at this same position at one time or another in this hobby. Everyone knows whats best except you.

The best advice, I can tell you, comes from forums like this one. How many pet stores have thousands of members discussing these issues all day long? There are thousands of years of experience on these forums.

I will not down play the importance of PWC's during the beginning of the cycle or how bad NH3/NH4 is in the short term and long term of the fishs life. Most members have already covered that.

I do want to add a couple of comments on some of your actions though. Aging water was a good way to get rid of chlorine when water suppies added that to your tap water, BUT a lot of communites are now adding chloramine to the water instead of chlorine. The chloramine takes much longer to leave the water then chlorine. The best why to avoid problems with chloramine is to add a product to convert it to chlorine and NH3 and then the same product converts the NH3 to another form less toxic to fish and the same with the chlorine. Seachem's Prime is perfered around here. This would explain why you have NH3 in your tap water when you test it and why you have seen fish die soon after the PWC.

If you are using well water, then there is no reason to "age" the water.

Plants: Adding plants will help cycle your tank because they come from tanks that have some amount of bacteria in them and this bacteria will gather on the plants and therefore minimize the amount of time your tank is cycling due to having more bacteria in your tank. The other benefit of plants is they perfer NH3 as a nitrogen source and therefore help minimize the NH3 spike you will have during this period.

The reason most people, on here, add plants after the cycle is due to the amount of light we have over the tank and the recommendation of doing a fishless cycle. You do not want to add NH3 into a tank that has a lot of light or else you will end up with a massive amount of algae and nothing but green water.

I applaud you for trying something different and hope you stick with this and keep us updated on the status of your venture.

 

[renosteinke]

Ben, thanks for the graph. One would think that every book discussing the cycle would include one like that, but that's not the case.

I have found a few products that promise to help with this cycle. One (Ammo Lock) claims to 'protect the fish from ammonia.' Another (Cycle) is a liquid that claims to 'release massive amounts of beneficial bacteria.' The final is, simply, a nitrogen free plant food.
I have also supplemented the the light I am providing with a 'plant light.' The pond is situated near a window, but this time of year the natural light is limited. I typically leave several compact fluorescent lamps on all day.

RK, thanks for the encouragement! Would you believe I just had someone assert that, during this initial period, all my levels ought to be zero! Yet another 'pro' assured me that their 55 gal aquarium was set up, and has run for years, without any help from them.

One thing that the PWC's have brought to my attention is the large amount of evaporation I will have to deal with. I think I am losing half a gallon a day to evaporation. I will have to monitor my salt / dissolved solids before long.

I suspect the low temps right now are a double-edged sword. On the 'plus' side, a test container I've had sitting around since Christmas has yet to show any signs of algae; on the 'minus' side, bacterial growth is certainly slowed down.

You are the first to mention the difference that chloramine makes in the water. I shall have to look into this issue. I tested tap water on a whim; I am now glad I did.

I also seem to have discovered a new "nitrogen analyzer:" my cats. It seems that, above 2ppm, they lose their taste for the pond water.

Levels seem to be dropping since I made the additions, but it really is too soon to say there is a trend.

As for the fish chosen, one reason I am starting with goldfish is their hardiness. I've seen carp survive some in water you wouldn't step in, let alone drink. I expect they will survive most of my fumbling.
Once this pond is established, I will use other fish. Minnows seem to be a good start. Something to clean the gravel. Perhaps a sunfish or bluegill. Even trout fingerlings are possible. But, that's a ways down the road.