LFS vs online order? Your preferences please.

[ravenwolf]

Hi. I am in the process of revamping and stocking my tank anew. Recent climate control issues in our house caused the house, thus the tank, to overheat. Every fish died, algae started exploding, SNAILS took over... it was sad. I scraped algae & did a 50% water change. Never once did my nitrate or ammonia climb. The pH rose with the water changes, but is now sitting back at the right spot.

To be certain that my tank is ready for the "good stuff", I put 4 cory cats, 6 sepae tetras & 6 black skirt tetras in there to monitor livelihood. I'll add a few more cory cats on Friday once I'm convinced everything is good to go. I may get a clown loach to help decrease the snail population, with the foresight of rehoming it once it starts getting too big for the tank mates. I'd like to add Bolivian or German Blue Rams (or replace the tetras, if compatibility will be an issue). Oh (!), it's a 55 gallon tank... lots of plants & caves/hidey-holes.

I've had Bolivians before, with Parrot cichlids, and fell - in - love with them. I was thoroughly heart-broken when the heat killed them. However, now that I'm actively looking to buy some from my LFS, the owner is only able to get the German Blue, Yellow or Electric Blue right now. Bolivians were not on the order sheet this week...

I've been "window shopping" at liveaquaria dot com quite a bit lately and would like to hear from any of you who've ORDERED fish before.
Who do you order your fish online from or do you just patiently (or in my case, wear the wax of the LFS's linoleum from pacing impatiently) wait for the local shop to get your desired fish in stock?

All insight would be appreciated. I'm fairly new to the site, but have had freshwater tanks for about 10 years now (always with cichlids of some sort).

Many thanks, in advance,
T

 

[librarygirl]

Sorry about your fish

Clowns get very large and need a group of 5+ so I wouldn't try it in a 55. A smaller loach that should eat snails are yoyo loaches (they need groups too). Or you could get a some assasin snails, they'll eat the smaller ones.

All of the fish I have in my tank came from breeders online. I've never had a problem. I live in a small state (the smallest lol) and I don't trust any of the LFS here. Most of my fish came from Severum Mama and HN1 on this site and she has Bolivians in stock now. You might want to send her a PM. She quarantines her fish before selling and I've never had a problem with fish from her.

 

[Samzter]

I would probably go with my Lfs . They are really great, helpful and give me discount. I would be tempted to buy off people from this website in the future though

 

[ravenwolf]

Thanks, librarygirl. I was devastated to say the least.

I love the LFS because I can see the fish first-hand. Discounts are nice.
The LFS of choice for me is one in which my daughter works at. The owner gives me the Employee Discount on everything & will even take anything I want to trade in. Right before "The Big Meltdown", I'd brought in a handful of parrot cichlids. They were getting to "that" size and two were becoming territorial with each other. My tank looked like a scene from West Side Story, you could almost see them splitting into sides. So, I took one "leader" and a few of it's followers out. I got a lovely store credit in which I've been using to revamp and tentatively re-stock the tank.

Through them, the Bolivians are a GREAT price, but the GBRs are cheaper @ liveaquaria. I'll look into SeverumMama & HN1, but plan to wait at least a few more days before any decisions are made since I'm still watching my tank. Found a cory dead this a.m., water is still testing at the appropriate levels for Nitrates and Ammonia (0) and pH is 7.2-7.4, which normal for where I live. Don't know if it was the fish or if there's still something "off" about my tank. I guess after mass aquaticide, I'm nervous about putting anything in there that I truly WANT. Make sense?

 

[ravenwolf]

I cannot post a reply on the classifieds nor will it allow me to send her a pm because I am a newbie here.
*sigh*

Severum Mama, if you see this... could you please let me know if you have any Bolivians left & if so, do you have any photos of them? How much do you sell them for? And for shipping purposes, I'm in 79924. Thanks.

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks, librarygirl. I was devastated to say the least.

I love the LFS because I can see the fish first-hand. Discounts are nice.
The LFS of choice for me is one in which my daughter works at. The owner gives me the Employee Discount on everything & will even take anything I want to trade in. Right before "The Big Meltdown", I'd brought in a handful of parrot cichlids. They were getting to "that" size and two were becoming territorial with each other. My tank looked like a scene from West Side Story, you could almost see them splitting into sides. So, I took one "leader" and a few of it's followers out. I got a lovely store credit in which I've been using to revamp and tentatively re-stock the tank.

Through them, the Bolivians are a GREAT price, but the GBRs are cheaper @ liveaquaria. I'll look into SeverumMama & HN1, but plan to wait at least a few more days before any decisions are made since I'm still watching my tank. Found a cory dead this a.m., water is still testing at the appropriate levels for Nitrates and Ammonia (0) and pH is 7.2-7.4, which normal for where I live. Don't know if it was the fish or if there's still something "off" about my tank. I guess after mass aquaticide, I'm nervous about putting anything in there that I truly WANT. Make sense?

Yep makes perfect sense; best to be patient and be sure. What test kit are you using? Did you test nitrIte? Did you have to change out your filter media when the tank was wiped out or did it dry out or go a long time ( more than a week) without an ammonia source (fish, etc)? If so then it might be going through a re-cycle. You ideally want some nitrAte but if the tank is lightly stocked and you just did a water change that migh be why there isn't any nitrate yet, but i'd check nitrite to be sure too (and if you're using the API kit, shake and bang both bottles for 30 seconds to loosen up the powder in them and vigorously shake the tube for 60 seconds then wait 5 mins for a reading; if this test isn't done exactly right you can get false readings).

Sometimes fish just die though, could be from stress too.

I'll PM Severum Mama for you and alert her to this thread.

 

[ravenwolf]

Yep makes perfect sense; best to be patient and be sure. What test kit are you using? Did you test nitrIte? Did you have to change out your filter media when the tank was wiped out or did it dry out or go a long time ( more than a week) without an ammonia source (fish, etc)? If so then it might be going through a re-cycle. You ideally want some nitrAte but if the tank is lightly stocked and you just did a water change that migh be why there isn't any nitrate yet, but i'd check nitrite to be sure too (and if you're using the API kit, shake and bang both bottles for 30 seconds to loosen up the powder in them and vigorously shake the tube for 60 seconds then wait 5 mins for a reading; if this test isn't done exactly right you can get false readings).

Sometimes fish just die though, could be from stress too.

I'll PM Severum Mama for you and alert her to this thread.

I have the API Freshwater Master Test Kit that includes Ammonia, Nitrate, gH, ph & High pH. I was just window shopping at Petsmart.com & thought to head there tomorrow or Friday to get: Jungle Labs Quick Dip Test Strips (tests Nitrites and Chlorine on top of the other standard ones), Tetra AquaSafe Plus Water Conditioner (seems to have a few beneficial properties that mine does not) & Mardel Maracyn-Two tablets (if all else comes back good & fish keep dying for no good reason, it may be worth a try). So, I will be testing the Nitrites before adding anything else. *Getting a chunk of driftwood, too. It seems to help soften our hard water a little. Our tap water is WICKED here.

The eel was the last living pet inhabitant in the tank. There were 7 small feeder goldfish and 3 feeder guppies left in the tank when the eel expired. When the eel was removed, I kept the feeders in there. The feeders proved very hardy & only 2 goldfish expired. I removed the remaining 5, afraid of the waste the goldfish tend to create. I purchased 6 cories & the dozen tetras. All but one cory cat died & two tetras passed as well. The feeder guppies have thrived and are still avoiding the tetras.

With the test results that I am getting, I can't help but think it's a bacteria or something. I've never, in my almost 10 years, dealt with something like this & really want to make sure that everything is normal and SAFE before putting ANY beloved rams in my tank. I will try that bang & extra shake that you are suggesting right now, thank you for all of your imput & THANK YOU for getting in touch with Severum Mama for me as well.

Ideally, I'd eventually like a handful of Bolivians with a few GBRs and maybe a few Balloon Rams (they are darn cute). OH (!) and a GOLD NUGGET PLECO *drool*

 

[jetajockey]

How old is your test kit? I wouldn't bother with the test strips at all. Assuming your test kit isn't expired, you could buy just an individual nitrite liquid test, there's no reason to test for chlorine.

The standard api freshwater master kit comes witih ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/ph/high ph tests so I'm not sure what you got.

Anyhow, definitely get things squared away before considering rams, they can be very touchy.

For the water conditioner, go for Prime or Amquel+, both are good in their ability to temporariliy detoxify ammonia and nitrite. Aquasafe+, stresscoat, etc are just kind of gimmicky, they have additives that help with slime coat and other stuff but it's totally unnecessary and I honestly believe it's just a selling point more than anything.

If you knew how much the actual chemical (sodium thiosulfate) used to dechlorinate water costs, it might make you sick after looking at prices for water conditioners.

As far as stocking goes, You could get away with a few pairs of rams in there but I wouldn't put more than maybe 4 or so. These fish pair up as adults and begin to mate, and when they do they can be aggressive towards one another.

To your initial issue, how hot exactly did it get in there? Hot enough to kill the fish is a huge amount of heat in most cases. I've lost some to this outside but never inside even in the garage where the air isn't climate controlled in the summer here in florida. Are you certain that the heat was the issue? Did you do anything during the time this happened? Water changes? Any additions to the tank?

 

[severum mama]

I cannot post a reply on the classifieds nor will it allow me to send her a pm because I am a newbie here.
*sigh*

Severum Mama, if you see this... could you please let me know if you have any Bolivians left & if so, do you have any photos of them? How much do you sell them for? And for shipping purposes, I'm in 79924. Thanks.

Welcome to AA.

I can ship you a couple of them for $12 Priority (estimated 2 days) or $33 Express (guaranteed by noon next day). I'd opt for the Priority, personally- much cheaper and 2-3 days in transit is not a big deal for these fish.

The fish are unsexed and are $8 each. Here are a couple pics:

The GBRs you see in the LFS tend to die for no apparent reason. The LFS stock is typically mass-produced and very weak. If you can't find any from a breeder, I'd skip them but that is JMO. Balloon rams are essentially fish that should have been culled, but fish farms/wholesalers instead gave them a cutesy name and started breeding them to exaggerate the short-bodied deformity. Same goes for any other "balloon" fish. I would avoid them like the plague, but again that is JMO.

 

[Maxkolbe]

I'd go online over an LFS. Got 9 ember tetras from SM for my tank and they all arrived healthy and disease free, something that's hard to find in a store. (at least the ones around here). Especially if your getting a touchy fish like rams I'd definitely go with a breeder over an LFS.

 

[LyndaB]

I cannot post a reply on the classifieds nor will it allow me to send her a pm because I am a newbie here.
*sigh*

Severum Mama, if you see this... could you please let me know if you have any Bolivians left & if so, do you have any photos of them? How much do you sell them for? And for shipping purposes, I'm in 79924. Thanks.

I believe you can still send someone a note as a visitor to their profile page when you are a newbie.

I got lots of stock from S Mama and have been very pleased with each and every transaction.

 

[ravenwolf]

How old is your test kit? I wouldn't bother with the test strips at all. Assuming your test kit isn't expired, you could buy just an individual nitrite liquid test, there's no reason to test for chlorine.

The standard api freshwater master kit comes witih ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/ph/high ph tests so I'm not sure what you got.

I bought my test kit a few years back. It does not have an expiration date on it & I've now sent in an email to API with the lot number in hopes of learning the status of my kit. I misinformed y'all. The kit's test bottles are labeled: Ammonia #1 & #2, NitrIte (not nitrAte, sorry), pH, High pH, and gH.

Anyhow, definitely get things squared away before considering rams, they can be very touchy.

For the water conditioner, go for Prime or Amquel+, both are good in their ability to temporariliy detoxify ammonia and nitrite. Aquasafe+, stresscoat, etc are just kind of gimmicky, they have additives that help with slime coat and other stuff but it's totally unnecessary and I honestly believe it's just a selling point more than anything.

If you knew how much the actual chemical (sodium thiosulfate) used to dechlorinate water costs, it might make you sick after looking at prices for water conditioners.

As far as stocking goes, You could get away with a few pairs of rams in there but I wouldn't put more than maybe 4 or so. These fish pair up as adults and begin to mate, and when they do they can be aggressive towards one another.

Thanks for that info. I had three Bolivians (sex unknown) before this whole debacle & they were all quite well behaved, so I would never have taken them to be aggressive fish. I never found them to be delicate either.


To your initial issue, how hot exactly did it get in there? Hot enough to kill the fish is a huge amount of heat in most cases. I've lost some to this outside but never inside even in the garage where the air isn't climate controlled in the summer here in florida. Are you certain that the heat was the issue? Did you do anything during the time this happened? Water changes? Any additions to the tank?

For about three days, my house was in the mid 90's - it was nauseatingly hot. When fish started dying, all I had on the tank was the sticky thermometers on the outside (internal thermometers were a source of entertainment or something for my fish & I did not want a broken thermometer. Years ago, I had Pacus that LOVED to destroy thermometers and just about anything else). The sticky thermometers only read up to 86* and they were maxed out. I pulled about 20 gallons out & replaced it with water only mildly cooler than the aquarium water (at this point, our "cold water" tap was tepid at best - life in the desert... yay! *sarcasm*). I checked the filters, they were clean. I tested levels, they were all good.
The next day I noticed that they were at the surface (trying to get more oxygen?), so I added a bubble stick thing. I also removed about 2 gallons of water, which increased the filter's output of air bubbles. The temperature was still not decreasing, so I threw away the heater in fear that it was malfunctioning. I tested the levels & they were all within the "GOOD" range still. The driftwood was algae and snail laden, so I threw it away. I pulled the other decor and scrubbed each with the stiff bristled brush that I've designated for just this aquarium and HOT tap water then put them back into the tank. I moved the tank a few feet over, where it was further from any light or heat source. I left the lids open (All Glass tops) to allow some heat to escape (or so my brain's logic went).
Day three, everything but the eel and some feeders had died. Water levels still tested good. Water temps were now around 80-82. I began to hope.
Since then, as you've read, the eel passed on. The feeder goldfish were removed (and fed to a baby caiman). I'd grabbed a few cory cats and tetras while I was there feeding my feeders to the caiman. The cory's did not survive. A couple of the Tetra have expired.
Today, I went to the LFS to purchase the AmQuel+ as suggested (they did not carry Prime, and did not go to Petsmart... it's a 20 minute drive that I could avoid). I had them test my water. Same results as what I've been getting. "There's nothing wrong" with the levels if it's a cichlid tank (pH was 7.4). I also bought the Maracyn treatment stuff, so now it'll be treating and waiting game for the next 5 days to see what happens with my tank - daring to hope that I end up with no more dead fish.


----------------------------------------------

SM:
Thank you for the warm Welcome. OMG - you've got some cuties there. I'm jealous! Seems Max and Lynda also endorse you (thanks for your input!), so you must be top-notch! I need to get my tank straightened out, but am extremely interested in buying 4 Bolivians. If I need to pay now to hold them, I can. Or if you have enough or they breed often, I would rather wait to see what happens with my tank.


Thank you all... I'll update on Saturday, but may be back sooner (more than likely).

 

[librarygirl]

A few years could be enough time to have it expire. Do the bottles have a bunch of numbers on the front? If so, the last four numbers are the date of manufacture, so say the last four numbers read 0910 that means it was manufactured in Sept 2010. Typically they last about 3 years from that date so you might want to buy a new kit.

I'll third the endorsement for Severum Mama. Most of the fish in my tank came from her and I've never had a problem with them.

Good luck, I hope the tank settles for you and you can get some Bolivians in there

 

[ravenwolf]

A few years could be enough time to have it expire. Do the bottles have a bunch of numbers on the front? If so, the last four numbers are the date of manufacture, so say the last four numbers read 0910 that means it was manufactured in Sept 2010. Typically they last about 3 years from that date so you might want to buy a new kit.

I'll third the endorsement for Severum Mama. Most of the fish in my tank came from her and I've never had a problem with them.

Good luck, I hope the tank settles for you and you can get some Bolivians in there

Hi, yeah... I emailed API and they told me about the Lot stamp=manufacture date. He said the general rule is 5 years on the freshwater kits & 3 years on the PondCare kits. Mine IS expired, but not by much & still came back with the same results as two lfs, one commercial chain and the other privately owned and personally known. But, I'm still buying a new kit tomorrow when I go pick my daughter up.

You don't need to third it, you were the initial endorser!
I cannot WAIT for my tank to stabilize... I so badly want my Rams and Gold Nugget pleco.

 

[ravenwolf]

Got up this a.m. and added treatment #2 of the Maracyn but noticed another dead brack skirt tetra. I'd just about had enough. Since I was on my way out of town/state for a few hours, I decided to make the best of it and and check out product at other locations. I was actually looking for something that would treat the WATER more than the FISH because the fish were showing none of the symptoms listed on the Maracyn treatment & found API's Quick Start. It got me thinking. I've done everything conceivable to "fix" the problem and it was getting to the point where I was tired of finding dead fish in my tank. There had to be something in the water or tank causing it.
So, I set up a hospital tank and transferred the remaining fish. I removed and dishwasher'ed (Hot Water / No Chemicals) all of the artificial plants and decorations TWICE (no heat dry). I drained every drop of water. I removed, thoroughly rinsed, then boiled all of the gravel. I scraped the glass and rinsed in HOT water. I removed that water & wiped inside with plain white paper towels.
I slowly added the gravel, fresh water and decor. Added the Quick Start. Waited about 30 minutes, added NovAqua + and AmQuel+. Waited 30 minutes.
Noted that water temperatures in hospital tank and freshly make 55 gallon were equal. Tested levels. Ammonia and Nitrite were -0- and pH was 7.4. Since we have horridly hard water, I added some aquarium salt and my new piece of driftwood.
I had to go back to the lfs and bring them a new water sample (to get replacement cory cats). They new my back story and wanted to wait until today and see how things would go. They were pleased with the levels, so they gave me my 4 cory cats (three standard (?) and one peppered). I also came across the absolute CUTEST parrot (the SA x, I know... but I'm a total sucker for their little Cabbage Patch Kid faces).
I'm really hopeful that things are going to be good from here. All the fish (the remaining 4 tetras, the handful of feeder guppies, the 4 cory cats & the one parrot) are all actively exploring and look good. If there are no casualties for at least 48 hours, I'd like to work out a purchase of 4 Bolivian Rams from SM.
Thanks~ T