My first Quest for help

[R&L]

Ok the scoop is a 10 gal tank. It has been up for 1 mo today 5-5-06
Our ahem "friends" at PS promised we could have fish in 72 hrs.
Well we have 5 left, 2 MM platys, 2 orange tetras and 1 Black fin guppy.
We went through a major cloudiness that lasted for about 3 weeks(not white,brown like pond water). Cleaning the aquaclear 20 filter i found that everything was black. I guess the carbon filter leaked carbon(it was rinsed for 3-5 mins before installing it)
Also have a whisper 10 filter that came with the tank. Both filters have been rinsed in aquarium water just once on Monday.
Until then i only had test strips that i really couldn't get good readings on.
I added Bio Spira 1oz on 4-28-06.
Got a AP test kit on 4-30.
ph 8.0
nitrate 40
nitrite 2.0
am 4.0

5-2 nitrate 10
nitrite 2.0
am 4.0

5-3
nitrate 10
nitrite 2.0
am 4.0

I did 2 30% PW changes and cleaned the gravel 0n 5-4-06, i had to get rid of the Ammonia

5-5-06
nitrate 10
nitrite 5.0
am 1.0

Question is when is the cycle over? or did it cycle when it looked like pond water(brown) the only way to clear it any was to change the water and get rid of the ammonia spike. Did i restart the cycling over and what should happen next or if the levels(nitrite/ammonia) go up high again should i do another change?

Any advice will be appreciated
Thanks
Rick & Lisa
Mississippi

 

[justrelax]

you should do pwc's every day to keep your ammonia and nitrite numbers down. nitrite should not exceed 0.5 at the most. with fish in the tank the cycle is going to take much longer than without. maybe see if your lfs will take back the fish until the cycle is completed. with those numbers you risk losing the rest of the fish.

 

[Thebluyak]

Yeah ur fish are hating life right now, u are poising them with ammonia, not only that but nitrites are harmful to fish also.

 

[rich311k]

You need to change your water 50% and then wait a few hours and change another 50%, those levels are at lethal levels. Maybe even change 75%. Your bio-spira did not work.

 

[Zagz]

Welcome to AA! You have come to the best fish forum on the internet. We'll help you through the cycling process.

I would do 75% immediately and 75% again in 6 hours. The ammonia needs to be below 0ppm. Your cycle is done when your ammonia and nitrite are both 0ppm and nitrates show at least 5ppm.

HERE is an excellent article on the nitrogen cycle.

 

[An t-iasg]

The cycle is over when the ammonia and nitrite read 0 and the nitrate is around 10-30 ppm. I do notice that you have nitrates now. Maybe your tap water has nitrates in it. You could do a nitrate test on your tap water to be sure.

Bio-Spira is not meant to "catch up" with the ammonia and nitrites already produced in the tank - it is meant to be added right at the beginning with the fish. I have tried to do what you did also with not much success. I have used Bio-Spira with the fish, right at the beginning, and it did work, but not in the 24 hours as promised on the package.

It does look like your cycle is about at the middle. Usually nitrites are not produced until ammonia is at 0, though, but since your water change, it looks like the nitrites have spiked. A month is not that long, actually - the cycle can take 6 weeks or a little longer.

Follow rich311k and Zagz's advice for water changes. After the initial two changes, you will probably need to do a change every day, for the health of the fish, until the tank completes the cycle.

If you took the fish back, your cycle would stall. The fish produce the ammonia that feed the bacteria that cycle the tank. However, fishless cycling is another way to cycle the tank. With no fish in the tank, pure ammonia in a 10% solution is added to the tank to simulate the waste that the fish would give off. The cycle will complete - maybe not any faster - but with no distress to fish. Do a google search for fishless cycling if you want to know more. You could take the fish back to the lfs while you do this. But my opinion would be that since you have the fish and they've gotten through this far, keep them, but be very conscientious about water changes until the tank is cycled. Ammonia can burn the gills and nitrite binds to the blood and "suffocates" them - the blood can't carry oxygen if the fish gets nitrite poisoning - sort of like carbon monoxide poisoning in people. So be very diligent about water changes, and keep testing every day. Don't rinse the filters until the cycle is complete and only do a gravel vac again if there are tons of gunk in the gravel. You need a little bit of detritus in the gravel for the bacteria to feed on. Be careful not to overfeed the fish too.

Here's an article on the nitrogen cycle: Oops, I see that Zagz already linked it!

Good luck and welcome to AA!

 

[R&L]

Ok i changed 7 gals.
I used Prime. The tap water is showing no nitrates.

The readings now are (with pumps running and an hr after change)
nitrites 0
nitrates 5
am .25

We will do another reading in the a.m. and change more water, our good friends at PetSmart aren't so smart imo. I know the spira was to be added from the first but i didn't know about it. I'm just trying to save the ones left.They are more than just $5 worth of fish to the wife.
Anyway I understand now that a 10g is the hardest to maintain and we are going to get a 30 or 55 for the livingroom after all this, but i know where it won't be bought.

Thanks so much for your help.

will post new readings tommorrow.

 

[An t-iasg]

Prime is a good product.

It looks like your readings came down quite a bit - that's good. Be sure to test again tomorrow morning to see how fast the levels of ammonia and nitrite have risen, and change another 5-7 gallons. Test again to make sure the levels dropped down far enough.

I (We!) understand how much the fish mean to you! I keep a few little laminated pics of my fish in my purse to show off sometimes!

A larger tank is easier to maintain. It may not be easier to do all the initial water changes on, but the problems are "diluted" in a larger volume of water. A small tank can run into trouble a lot faster than a larger tank. You could do the fishless cycle on the larger tank.

About the lfs employees - like any store, some are better than others, but I certainly wouldn't go back to a store that I felt didn't give good advice or value my business. It is up to us to do our own "homework", though! I have an lfs I trust but I still do my own research.

 

[R&L]

6 1/2 hrs after the pwc.
nitrates 5
nitrites .5
ammonia .25

I'm not doing a pwc again at this time. Should i do it now or wait till the nitrites reach 1.0 and or ammonia rises?

 

[justrelax]

boy, where were my manners... Welcome to AA!
if you have the time, i would definately keep changing the water to keep those nitrites under .5 as long as fish are still in the tank. it's going to happen a lot but it will be worth it, especially to your fish! good job, keep it up...

 

[Jchillin]

I have to agree with JR, you will need to do PWC's until those parameters get down, especially the nitrites. It's a lot of work but the benefits in the end will be greatly appreciated by the fish.

 

[Zagz]

I'll third that advice.

 

[R&L]

OK 14 hrs after the 1st pwc
nitrites .5
nitrates 5
ammonia .5

so it looks like a 50% pwc every 12 hrs and test every other day until it's over.

 

[rich311k]

Sounds like you are on top of it. Keep up the good work. You will be done soon enough.

 

[R&L]

Ok after going 18hrs with no pwc the levels stayed at
am .5
nitrites .5
nitrates 5

9 hrs later they were
am 1
nitrites 2
nitrates 10
i did another pwc so we will wait some more.

 

[R&L]

Well guys, after many pwc's we are almost there.
Ammonia=0
Nitrites=.5
Nitrates=40

Im i correct in continue with pwc to get the nitrates down to 10 or below now or wait for the nitrites to hit 0?

I actually didn't believe the Am test. This is the first time it's been 0. I understand it may go back up a little before the nitrites reach 0. Is this correct?

We couldn't have done it without your help. Probably would have given up.

We just got a 37gal that i'm building a stand and canopy for that i plan on leaving the AC20 in the 10 gal and moving the Whisper into the new tank since it and the AC have been running in the 10gal. Also some of the gravel in the 10 is going into the 37 and replace what i'm taking with new.(just about a cup) both are the same color so....

I have an AC70 coming for thr 37 and will run both in it till it cycles, hopefully just a couple of weeks this time.

Anything else i should or shouldn't do to the new one? I am going to cycle fishless in the new one.

THANKS guys for your help and advice.

Rick & Lisa

 

[RoK]

Try another PWC to especially get the nitrite a little lower.