Need some advice/help with my fishless cycling please

[dsun]

Hi all, I am new to the hobby. I just set up my 55G tank for cichlids and I am a bit confused on if my fishless cycling is working or not.

Here is my log so far...

tap water baseline
nitrite .50
nitrate 10 or 20, API master test kit color guide looks too similar for my crappy eyes

I skipped testing on days 1-2, i initially added to 2ppm ammonia

Day 3: ammonia - 0.5 /nitrite - 5 ppm / nitrate - 5 or 10?

day 4: amonia .5 /nitrite -5 ppm / nitrate 10


day 5: ammonia .25 > raised to 4 / nitrite 5ppm /nitrate 10 or 20

day 6 skipped testing

day 7: ammonia - 0.25 then raised to 4 /nitrite off the chart as usual / Nitrate at 40 or 80, def increase! hard to tell difference as the test colors are so simiar

PH has been 8.0 to 7.8 the whole time

Why did my nitrite go through the roof on day 3? Doesn't it take awhile before it shows up?
Should I keep dosing ammonia everytime it gets low?
Should I do a PWC to bring down nitrites?
I am losing water due to evaporation with my heater set on 80 and I added some distilled water to bring the levels up a bit, is that ok?

Thank you for helping a newbie!

 

[Masha]

Why did my nitrite go through the roof on day 3? Doesn't it take awhile before it shows up?

That is strange. Yes, usually the nitrite takes a while to show up. Hoping somebody more experienced has some ideas and can give you an answer.

Should I keep dosing ammonia everytime it gets low?

Yes. Be careful not to put in too much - you just want to keep that bacteria growing. Keeping the level between 2 - 4ppm should be okay.

Should I do a PWC to bring down nitrites?

That is a good idea. Remember to add the dechlorinator Don't want to zorch all that beneficial bacteria. When cycled my new tank recently, the nitrites went so high I had to do three water changes of around 70% each before the nitrite level was within a readable range, and after that things moved along much better.

I am losing water due to evaporation with my heater set on 80 and I added some distilled water to bring the levels up a bit, is that ok?

Thank you for helping a newbie!

I have no idea - but I can't imagine it does any harm. I've read different things about having the temperature so high during a cycle - some people say it makes no difference. Hopefully more experienced members will comment on that too.

 

[Caliban07]

Bacteria that break down ammonia are going to start colonising first due to their food source, they also naturally colonise slightly faster than bacteria responsible for breaking down nitrite. This bacteria is also very efficient at its job.

It's not uncommon for nitrites to go off the chart when doing fishless cycling and this is the slowest stage. Have to admit 7 days is pretty quick but it's not impossible. Especially if you have used filter media, gravel, ornaments or plant from an established aquarium.

Nitrites are stacking up because there is not enough bacteria to break it down yet you are still dosing ammonia.

My steps would be:

Do whatever water changes are necessary to bring nitrites to a readable level. Dose 0.5ppm ammonia wait till it gets to 0ppm then wait till nitrites come down also. Then dose 1ppm same again. Go up in increments of 0.5ppm till you reach 4ppm. When your bacteria can bring 4ppm ammonia to 0ppm in a 24 hour period and nitrites are 0 and nitrates 5-20ppm then you are cycled. You will have to do water changes to bring nitrates down.

Your high nitrates in your tap water could pose a problem though. Live plants will help a little and you will have to be a vigilant cleaner of filter media and gravel. Test tap water again to make sure the tests are correct or contact you supplier and ask. You might be able to do this over the internet.

 

[henningc]

First I am not a big fan of adding ammonia, but people do it all the time. It shoulds like your tap water id fairly unbalanced to start with and that plus ammonia will cause events like day three.

I would start doing a 10%-15% everyday for three days, test, then wait a day and test again. If the nitrites are still sky high, do a 25% water change and add just trace amounts of ammonia. Within two-three days things should level out. Once things stablize, do 10% water changes every other day for a week to ten days and let it go. You may aslo wish to add a carbon filter to a five gallon bucket of water and run it for two-three days and use the water for a water change. That should provide water with minimal traces of the bad stuff.

Keep in mind distilled water has zero hardness and will bring down the level a little bit. It doesn't hurt anything in moderation. I use distilled for some of my fish that like soft acidic water.

Last advise I can give, relax and let the tank cycle out. Add a few dither fish (Distractions) for a week prior to purchasing the cichlids. I'd add rosy reds or what PetSmart calls feeder minnows. You also need to read up to see what cichlids go together. Don't mix africans with south americans and things like that. Also keep in mind a lot of the africans need special water conditions and get large and aggressive. Central and south americans can get very large as well. Make sure to purchase the cichlids from a good reputable source. If money is no object, go with Bluegrass Aquatics. Consolidated Fish Farm also have good cichlids.

 

[dsun]

Thank you everyone for the advice

The filter i use is a Fluval406
My father soaked the rings in his aquarium for half a day, i forgot he did that and rinsed it along with all the other filter sections in tap water since my filter canister is new to remove any dust/crap prior to initial use. Maybe some beneficial bacterial survived?

I will do a 25% water change today and see if i can bring dowj the nitrates

I have a question for adding water...i got a Python water change hose system..
Do i add tap water into the tank and immediatly add Seachem
Prime? Or do i add water into buckets, add Prime, then dump into my tank? Will the chorlrine in tap water kill any bacteria if i directly add to tank then immediatly add prime? Id rather not use bucket method as my back is bad and hauling the bucket to dump into the tank is goingbto be a PITA

I am going for a all male peacock cichlids

 

[jlk]

Bacteria that break down ammonia are going to start colonising first due to their food source, they also naturally colonise slightly faster than bacteria responsible for breaking down nitrite. This bacteria is also very efficient at its job.

It's not uncommon for nitrites to go off the chart when doing fishless cycling and this is the slowest stage. Have to admit 7 days is pretty quick but it's not impossible. Especially if you have used filter media, gravel, ornaments or plant from an established aquarium.

Nitrites are stacking up because there is not enough bacteria to break it down yet you are still dosing ammonia.

My steps would be:

Do whatever water changes are necessary to bring nitrites to a readable level. Dose 0.5ppm ammonia wait till it gets to 0ppm then wait till nitrites come down also. Then dose 1ppm same again. Go up in increments of 0.5ppm till you reach 4ppm. When your bacteria can bring 4ppm ammonia to 0ppm in a 24 hour period and nitrites are 0 and nitrates 5-20ppm then you are cycled. You will have to do water changes to bring nitrates down.

Your high nitrates in your tap water could pose a problem though. Live plants will help a little and you will have to be a vigilant cleaner of filter media and gravel. Test tap water again to make sure the tests are correct or contact you supplier and ask. You might be able to do this over the internet.

Great advice! I would recommend the same thing. I suggest though for water changes or just simply topping off evaporated water that you only use dechlorinated tap water. Distilled water is nothing more than pure water and contains zero buffers and minerals and may come back to haunt your tank as the cycle continues to ramp up speed.

In respect to your tap nitrate, what color does it appear? Light orange? Orange? Dark orange? Red-orange? If you are in the US and using public water, 10ppm is the maximum legal limit allowable for nitrates. The master kit chart for nitrates is quite vague for lower numbers but the individual chart is reasonably clear for lower numbers. If you can post a pic of color, we can help a bit more in giving you a more definite number.

 

[dsun]

Great advice! I would recommend the same thing. I suggest though for water changes or just simply topping off evaporated water that you only use dechlorinated tap water. Distilled water is nothing more than pure water and contains zero buffers and minerals and may come back to haunt your tank as the cycle continues to ramp up speed.

In respect to your tap nitrate, what color does it appear? Light orange? Orange? Dark orange? Red-orange? If you are in the US and using public water, 10ppm is the maximum legal limit allowable for nitrates. The master kit chart for nitrates is quite vague for lower numbers but the individual chart is reasonably clear for lower numbers. If you can post a pic of color, we can help a bit more in giving you a more definite number.

Is it safe if i use Seachem Lake Malawi PH buffer that i have to raise ph if i use DS water to top off?

Sure, ill take a picture of my tap nitrate levels when i get home from work tonight
It is between a light and orange..pretty sure its 10ppm due to regulation. But again, master kit color between 10 and 20 is really close


Any comment or tips on how to use Seachem Prime when i do water change? Can i fill up my tank with tap and immediatly drop the prime in? Or should i drizzle the prime in as it fills up?

Thanks again for all the help

 

[jlk]

Dose Prime to your tank size and refill for water changes. I honestly would stick to using treated tap water for your top offs and spare yourself the additional expense of distilled and adding further chemicals to your water. Life is a bit easier if you keep things simple.

If you need buffers in the future for establishing more specific parameters for your cichlid tank, do not hesitate to ask in the Cichlid section for specific advice and what products are recommended.

 

[dsun]

i did a 20% water change and my nitrite were still sky high, so I did a 50% change and its still at 5ppm! I dunno what i should do now...

ammonia at 0, going to dose to .25 and keep doing it daily to see if nitrites go down after a few days

 

[Masha]

Don't be scared to keep doing huge water changes till those nitrites are in a readable range. I had to do 3 of about 70% each before I could read mine, and it helped.

 

[1998golfer]

Yes. Be careful not to put in too much - you just want to keep that bacteria growing. Keeping the level between 2 - 4ppm should be okay.

Just curious... what happens if you dose too much ammonia? Because if i want to get my tank up to processing more than 4ppm of ammonia in ~24hrs BEFORE I add fish, I would want to dose it up higher. Would you just build it up slowly, like 0.5ppm more each time you dose? so once it processes 2ppm in 24hrs do 2.5, once that in 24 hrs put 3ppm, onwards until what you want?

 

[Masha]

The experts will correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems too high ammonia inhibits the growth of the bacteria that converts nitrite > nitrate. At any rate, it can mean a lot more water changes near the end of the cycle, as nitrite levels go out of readable range.

It seems it's not always clear if those super high nitrite levels actually stall the cycle or only appear to, but the "increase gradually" method is probably a lot less stress and work

 

[1998golfer]

The experts will correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems too high ammonia inhibits the growth of the bacteria that converts nitrite > nitrate. At any rate, it can mean a lot more water changes near the end of the cycle, as nitrite levels go out of readable range.

It seems it's not always clear if those super high nitrite levels actually stall the cycle or only appear to, but the "increase gradually" method is probably a lot less stress and work

So increasing gradually to something like 6-8 ppm 0.5ppm increase at a time is reasonable?

 

[Fresh2o]

4 ppm ammonia seems to be the accepted dosing level but its not a rule. I don't think the initial stocking of fish would be producing that much ammonia. Gradual increases in ammonia dosing should be fine.

Using media from an established tank, I cycled a 20g tank in about 15 days. Converting 4 ppm ammonia in about 24 hours. However, the only residents in the tank for the next few months were a few shrimp.

 

[1998golfer]

4 ppm ammonia seems to be the accepted dosing level but its not a rule. I don't think the initial stocking of fish would be producing that much ammonia. Gradual increases in ammonia dosing should be fine.

Using media from an established tank, I cycled a 20g tank in about 15 days. Converting 4 ppm ammonia in about 24 hours. However, the only residents in the tank for the next few months were a few shrimp.

Well when I do get fish for my 55, I'll be getting 6 angels and 6 mts at the same time from Bob McCoy. I just want to make sure my BB can handle it...

 

[Caliban07]

Yes just do what you said and dose slowly increments of 0.5ppm ammonia. Dosing high ammonia at the start of a cycle just means that nitrites stack up until there is enough BB to convert it.

 

[dsun]

correct me if i am wrong, if my nitrites are still high today, I should do a 70% WC, dose ammonia to 0.5 and repeat everyday until nitrites become manageable?

 

[Masha]

correct me if i am wrong, if my nitrites are still high today, I should do a 70% WC, dose ammonia to 0.5 and repeat everyday until nitrites become manageable?

Basically, you should do however many water changes you need to get the nitrites to within a readable range. Apparently, too high nitrite levels can actually inhibit the growth of the bacteria that converts nitrites > nitrates.

There seems to be some controversy over whether that is true - but that seemed to be what happened in my case, where things only started happening when I brought down the nitrite amount.

Then, as a separate thing, you need to add ammonia whenever ammo levels drops below 1ppm so the bacteria that converts ammonia > nitrites (nitrosoma) does not starve.

For a while that will make nitrites spike, as there is not enough nitrite>nitrate bacteria (nitrospira). When the nitrospira catch up to the amount of nitrites produced by the nitrospora, your tank is cycled.

 

[dsun]

Basically, you should do however many water changes you need to get the nitrites to within a readable range. Apparently, too high nitrite levels can actually inhibit the growth of the bacteria that converts nitrites > nitrates.

There seems to be some controversy over whether that is true - but that seemed to be what happened in my case, where things only started happening when I brought down the nitrite amount.

Then, as a separate thing, you need to add ammonia whenever ammo levels drops below 1ppm so the bacteria that converts ammonia > nitrites (nitrosoma) does not starve.

For a while that will make nitrites spike, as there is not enough nitrite>nitrate bacteria (nitrospira). When the nitrospira catch up to the amount of nitrites produced by the nitrospora, your tank is cycled.

I see, so far my nitrates went from 10ppm (my tap baseline) to 20 or perhaps 40ppm(hard to tell as color on chart is really similar) two days ago.

I am going to check my nitirite levels this afternoon and if its still high, which i guess it is, i will do a 70% WC and redose ammo to .5

Does anyone know why I would still get a high nitrite reading even tho i essentially did a 70% WC? Is there really that many nitirites even in the reminaing 30% water?

 

[Masha]

Is there really that many nitirites even in the reminaing 30% water?

Yep. Hard to believe, but yes.

I think those aquarium test kits test to a very low level of nitrites, as even a low level is very dangerous to your fish. Much lower than the ammonia>nitrite BB can produce. No point in showing "your fish are dead" and "your fish are even deader!"