Need some help with Tap Water

[greyboysix]

I'm a newbie here, and I'm hoping for some advice. Y'all definitely seem to know what you're talking about. I guess anyone else that lives where I do, just north off Philly, would have the same problem.. I just set up a 29 Gallon freshwater (I'll list my full set-up at the end), and I'm worried about the water I have coming out of the tap. Using an API Master Test Kit, there's no ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates, but it's got a high pH of about 7.8-8.0. I also got a quick dip test from Jungle, and it's telling me that I do have Nitrates (barest pigmentation on the stick, might be eyes playing tricks on me), the Nitrites are pretty much the same (might be eyes playing tricks), the total hardness (GH) is about 300 (which, it says, is VERY hard), there's NO chlorine, the total alkalinity (KH) is between 180 and 300 (closer to, if not, 300. Which is, of course, high), and again, a pH of between 7.8 and 8.2. Now, I just set the tank up YESTERDAY, and haven't tried to cycle it yet. What the **** can I do?
I repeatedly read that it's better to not do anything to change the chemistry of your water, that all it does is stress the fish. But, what the heck fish is going to thrive in water like that? The local fish store (pet smart, I live in a burg. Closest true aquarist place I've heard of is in South Philly) says that they condition all their water. I really do want a thriving fish tank, but I'm worried that with my water chemistry, or without dumping gallons of chemicals in there with the poor fish, anything I put in there will be dead within the day. Am I worrying too much? Will things change after I cycle the tank? If they will change, how bad will the swings be when I do my water changes? Thanks people. Any help would be awesome.
The set-up
29 Gallon freshwater
Penguin 350 biowheel filter
2 visi-therm 100 Watt submersible heaters
four live plants, several "dead" plants and rocks
Medium gravel

 

[fijiwigi]

As long as you cycle your tank and watch the spike of ammonia then nitrite and then nitrate you should be ok. even if your water is not perfect just make sure that it is cycled so that there are beneficial bacteria to digest the fish waste. After the Nitrates drop and your tank is cycled just add 1 fish preferably a hardy fish. And slowly add 1 fish at a time as to increase your bio-load. At first the bacteria are babies it takes a little while for them to mature enough to handle a large bio-load that is created by several fish. The trick to this hobby is PATIENCE consistency taking it really slow and not getting carried away even if that means your tank is empty for a while. Before you can have a healthy tank that fish can thrive and grow in you must build-up your bacteria to handle the fishes bio-load. if you Google fishless aquarium cycle and do some reading on the subject it will help you a great deal. hope this helps And Dont dose your tank with anything without asking about it on this forum most of the products on the market are a gimmic and not needed they will make things worse. All you really need is a dechlorinator such as Prime or Aquasafe

 

[jsoong]

7.8 pH is not that bad ... my water is just like yours & my fish are just fine.

I would trust the API test kit ... dip tests are notorious for being unreliable.

When PetSmart says they condition their water - they mean adding a dechlorinator, not altering the pH & such. I would expect that all their fishes are acclimatized to your tap pH. However, to be safe, you can do a drip acclimatization. <Put fish & lfs water in a container, slowly add your tank water - using a very small (airline) hose, or just dump in a bit of water at a time using a cup. Your aim is to add your tank water (may be 4-5x the amount of the lfs water) slowly, over 1-2 hours so the fish can gradually adjust.>

As a rule, almost all fish can be acclimitized to pH of 7.8 as long as it is stable. Some have reported success even with sensitive species like discus. If youa re into breeding sensitive fish & such, then you may need to mess with your water. You can soften water using peat or more effectively, mixing your water 1/2 & 1/2 with R/O water. But messing with water chemistry is really for the advanced aquatist & usually not needed for the usual Petsmart fish.

I woudl simply add dechlorinator (I like Prime) and be done with it..... BTW - reading zero chlorine on your test does not mean you can skip the dechlorinator - most cities use chloramines (rather than chlorine) as water disinfectant, so you still need to condition the water (plus a good dechlor will also remove heavy metals & other nasties).

 

[Zagz]

I will second both posts prior to this post. My ph is 7.6 and all my fish thrive in it. I have discus, angelfish, rams, apistos and cichlids. The "perfect" conditions for them is all different from each other. They all live in the same unaltered water.

 

[dvanv]

I have hard water with a PH 8.2 and all the fish are doing fine. I take a bit longer to acclimate them when I first get them home. You will be fine once your tank is cycled.

 

[fishb0ne]

7.8 pH? Ha, I laugh in your face. Try this: 8.4!
Fish are fine, the most important thing is for the pH to be stable. Do NOT mess with pH "adjusting" chemicals.
My crabs also love the high pH and hardness. I haven't seen healthier specimens

 

[greyboysix]

Thanks guys

I'll definitely add Dechlorinator to my water. I found my township's water quality report on-line, and they add chloramines. I was talking to my dad, and he said when he had his tanks, he would just leave the bucket of water out for two days before putting it in the tank. He said the additives would just evaporate. Anyone ever hear of that working?
Anyhow, that all sounds like good advice. I'm just a worrier, that's all. I'll probably reconsider which species I put in the tank. I was looking through a book I bought on various fish species and what they like/dislike (I'm not gonna trust the kids at Pet Smart!) and am thinking about switching to a cichlid tank, although that's not really a beginner tank.

 

[fishb0ne]

That is not true. Additives react with the water, they do not "stay by themselves" and just evaporate.
I cannot recommend Seachem PRIME enough. It is one of the best water conditioners out there, if not THE best. Besides neutralizing harmful metals, chlorine and chloramine, it also converts toxic ammonia and nitrite into a non-toxic form. It also promotes the natural production of fish slime coating. It really does a lot of stuff. It's not expensive, go pick some up.

 

[greyboysix]

Thanks FishbOne, I'll do that. I'll pick some up on my way into work today. One other question about that though, just to be sure, I should use it while I'm cycling, right?

 

[fishb0ne]

You can, it will not affect or prolong the cycle, but it will not be an excuse to not do PWCs either. The fish will still be relatively stressed by the ammonia and nitrite [if you are not doing a fishless cycle] but Prime helps ameliorate the effects.
Note that Prime is safe to use in doses as much as 5 times the regular dose, so don't be overly concerned with your dosing. Also, Prime is only active for 24 hours iirc. If you have fish in there during cycling, you'd have to do daily PWCs and dose again.

 

[jsoong]

I'll definitely add Dechlorinator to my water. I found my township's water quality report on-line, and they add chloramines. I was talking to my dad, and he said when he had his tanks, he would just leave the bucket of water out for two days before putting it in the tank. He said the additives would just evaporate. Anyone ever hear of that working?

In the OLD days, they use chlorine only as disinfectant. Chlorine will outgass ("evaporates") after a couple days, so it is possible to skip dechlor by using aged water.

Because chlorine is gone in a couple of days, it is not too effective as a disinfectant for your water supply, so just about everyone had switched to chloramines. Chloramines last at least 1 week under bright lights (longer in the dark), so you would need a dechlor to neutualize that for your tanks.

 

[greyboysix]

One last really stupid question

Again, thanks guys, for the invaluable advice. One last horrifyingly stupid question. I just want to make sure I've crossed all my ts and dotted all my eyes. FishbOne said that the dechlorinator only is active for 24 hours, and JSoong said that the chloramines are active for one week. Just to be sure, I only need to add the dechlorinator to the water that I add, when I add it, and NOT every day. Correct?

 

[fijiwigi]

That is correct. Just when you prep the water add the dechlorinator not every day. Its as simple as that(conversation is overanalyzed). What you should worry about is your cycle. Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate you should see spikes in all 3 and then at the end of the cycle(when the Nitrates drop) your tank is cycled and safe to add 1fish.

 

[fishb0ne]

greyboysix that is correct, because Prime neutralizes all chlorine/chloramine/metals in a matter of minutes. For this reason it is a good idea to mix it with your water in a bucket and let it do it's work for 10 minutes. Can't remember if it was this forum or another where someone actually lost a bunch of shrimp because he let the water sit for only 5 minutes and PRIME didn't get a chance to do it's work fully. It stays active for 24 hours and continues to work on the ammonia and nitrite

 

[greyboysix]

Sweet

Like I said, thanks again, and that's the last stupid question. For a while, at least. I started (fishless) cycling of my tank today. When I get a chance this weekend, I'll post what all my readings are. I'd appreciate it if y'all would look at it and give me an idea if it's going normally. I'll be patient. I promise. haha.

 

[vfc]

greyboysix,
I also live in a northern suburb of Philly. My water comes primarily from the Schuylkill river and presents quite a challenge for fish keepers. If you use Google Earth you can see there are 12 waste treatment plants and a nuclear power station up river. My tap water has 10-30PPMs of nitrates (nitrates highest in mid-summer). To make matters worse, six months out of the year, they pump highly acidic and heavy metal laden water from an abandoned coal mine to supplement the water flow needed for the Limerick nuclear power plant. So if you don't like what you see in your test kit today, don't bother checking it in the summer.

Having said that, your best bet is to keep African Cichlids. They seem to thrive in this water. There is a good section at World Wide Aquarium in Upper Darby or Pets Plus on route 309 in Quarkertown.

 

[vfc]

greyboysix,
Once you get your tank established and ready for weekly water changes; you will need to premix a double dose of Prime in a bucket of water before using it. I have two 35G trash cans hooked together and let the water circulate with large airstones for a few hours before pumping the water into the tanks. Adding the water & Prime together while filling up the tank will kill off some of the weaker fish. The water is just too bad to dump in without pre-conditioning it first.

 

[greyboysix]

Thanks again

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice. I live in Horsham, so yeah, our water comes from the schuylkill rive too, but I don't know which plant. I'll check out world wide aquariums too. Saw on their site that they'll test the water for free, so after I think I'm done cycling, I'll let the pros have at it. In your experience, do the people there give good advice?

 

[vfc]

Check to make sure Jim Hall is working the day you visit the Upper Darby store. He is one of the leading cichlid experts in the US. He has traveled to Africa and Central America a number of times to observe and purchase fish.

The Upper Darby store has over 50 tanks of African cichlids alone, so you will have quite a selection. Allow time for Jim to tell you his life story. The first time I meet him, we talked three hours!

 

[greyboysix]

Check to make sure Jim Hall is working the day you visit the Upper Darby store. He is one of the leading cichlid experts in the US. He has traveled to Africa and Central America a number of times to observe and purchase fish.

The Upper Darby store has over 50 tanks of African cichlids alone, so you will have quite a selection. Allow time for Jim to tell you his life story. The first time I meet him, we talked three hours!

Again, thanks. I will definitely check that place out, and I'll call before going to make sure Jim is there.