New fantail goldfish, rescued

[jlk]

Temperature matching is easy- just try to make sure your tap water (new water) is close to the temp of your tank water. You can fill a bucket (or a cup) of tank water and use your hand to try & feel the tap water so it is close to that of your tank water. Adding new water that is colder or hotter than your tank water will be a shock for your fish. Obviously, a thermometer would be more precise but its not necessary!

 

[jsoong]

Since you cannot bring the fish home, why not bring some of the tank grunge from home to the fish. Put some media/grunge in a bag (or plastic container -clean, no soap!!) and tank water, and you can bring that to the office & add it to the filter. That should jump start the cycle in the new tank and prevent sky high spikes.

Doing water changes is the key, and you are doing great with the fish ... kudos for all the work rescuing them.

15 gal is a bit small for sure, but is OK for 2 small fantails. As long as you do enough pwc's, they can be fine for years. You are looking at minimum of 50% weekly, escalating frequency as the fish grow. You can prob keep the pair in there till they are 3-4" (not counting tail). When you are doing daily (or every other day) 50% pwc (after the tank is cycled) and still can't get nitrate levels down, (or if there is persistent NH3), it is time for a bigger tank!

The flashing may be from ammonia burns, which clean water will treat. However, stressed fish may come down with ich or other parasites, which will also give flashing. So keep an eye out for any spots & treat early if you see any.

Gulping air at surface is indicative of low O2. This is likely from high NO2. NO2 prevents O2 uptake by blood, so the fish acts as if the water is O2 deficient. Ammonia burns to gills may also prevent adequate O2 exchange. Treatment for either is more pwc!

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Progress! Boss (who is lovely) has just lent us a small skull from his home fish tank, so that is now sitting in the tank, hopefully bacteria-ising the tank nicely. I shall do a water test at lunchtime and see how it's going!

Apparently his own poor little goldfish looked outraged at their toy being taken out; will have to give them a treat upon its return as a thank you

Our fish are now looking with some interest at the skull, and are also not currently mooching around the surface so hopefully the big water change yesterday did some good! More testing and possible changing at lunchtime!

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

My one paranoid question is:
If I've just put the skull in, and presumably the bacteria are busily transferring from the skull into the other places in the tank as well (aka the new filter), will doing a water change actually suck out these bacteria as they try to move across the tank??
(would it maybe be better to wait until say 4.30pm today, so give them 6 hours to amble across the tank and colonise the filter)

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Right. The decision has been made. The fish are moving to one of the residential offices here, back to their original owner (with supervision!).
Am a bit sad :|

But for now, if anyone would like to help me put together a list of 'this is what you need to do, how much and why', that would be really appreciated (as I'm sure I haven't yet learnt enough about goldfish to do a full and proper list)

So far I have:
- get a 130l + tank for them within the next year
- buy a water testing kit. keep checking water daily until the tank has cycled
- how to tell if a tank has cycled (er, I find this bit tricky to explain...)
- buy a book on how to care for goldfish
- add tap conditioner whenever doing water change
- 50% water change every week once cycled until bigger tank is obtained
- put them somewhere not too busy, not too hot, not in a window
- make sure one person is consistently responsible for them

What else? I'm sure that's not enough! And yes, this is partially because I am really fretting about them not being in my care any more as I tend not to trust other people to be competent

 

[jlk]

Great list so far! I would just add to make sure one has a complete understanding of the nitrogen cycle (what it is, how it works, why its necessary for the health of your fish) and to join this site to ask questions & for further advice! I hope the goldies will be ok!!

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Apologies for the ongoing questions but much appreciation for the help.

One of the fish today I think has got a tiny white spot on the back of its dorsal fin. I think.

Now, my question is, if it is ich, can I treat that whilst trying to cycle a tank?

Stage 2 is trying to get the 'owner' to actually come and see me and buy a testing kit etc, rather than not bothering to come over and me using up my own (pretty pricey) testing kit on what are ultimately someone else's fish (and I don't mean that in a horrible way, just that if he's going to claim them as his, then he can jolly well start buying things for them!)

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Er er er.
One more thing. I've just noticed them swimming past each other and then effectively kissing! Several times
Is this just really cute, or an indication that something's wrong? :|
Thanks

 

[jlk]

Dont panic about a single white dot on the fish yet! It may be nothing & it may be the fish recovering from their horrific ordeal in a plastic container! If you see anymore white dots (like grains of salt), it very well could be ich. Read the sticky on ich in the unhealthy fish forum. The best treatment is simple-aquarium salt. This is safe & will not hurt your cycle. They will need to be treated for 2 weeks. The kissing fish is a mystery to me (and sounds cute!)-i have heard of it before but i honestly do not know if the kissing is associated with problems! I do know certain species do 'kiss' but i have never witnessed it in goldfish! As long as the water parameters look good, i wouldnt worry too much but maybe another goldfish person on here has an idea!!!

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Today's update and questions
(thank you again very much for your patience!)

Water test ammonia 0.25 nitrite 0.25
Felt a little suspicious about this as it's been like this for 3 days of 50% pwc every day. Tested tap water. Neither came out as exactly that high, but certainly didn't come out as quite 0 either.
So am a bit unsure whether to leave it a day and give the bacteria a bit of a chance to grow (as I worry that daily 50% water changes are not helping), or to do say, a 30% water change (hoover the poo, bit of a change).

In all honesty I am tempted to drop into LFS and buy some purified water and just do a 50% change tomorrow and see what that does! I don't think the tap water here is very nice :|

The fish are:
very occasionally rubbing along the floor, very occasionally going up to the top for air (much less than before). One of them is spending some time (between looking fine) floating in a nearly vertical position (head up). This really worries me.

Any ideas?

PS: Re fish homing, I may apparently be getting to home them after all! Further news as it comes.

 

[jlk]

Doing a 50% pwc daily (or even mutiple times a day) will not hurt your cycle and is the best thing for your fish. Get the amm/nitrite as low as possible (whatever your tap reads) and do not worry about buying bottled water! Changing your water source now is only going to set you up for more problems & expense. In addition, bottled water tends to have a drastically different ph than most tap water. A big swing in ph can have drastic effects on your fish & negatively affect your cycle so your best to just work with what you have (tap). These poor fish have had a rough time & your doing your best for them now! Im not quite sure what is going on with the strange swimming behavior so i would like to know what you are feeding them (flakes, pellets, brand, if they sink or float). I would try feeding them daily a few plain (no salt or anything else), cooked, deshelled (remove outer tough shell) peas. Peas do wonders for digestive issues (usually associated with swim issues) and goldfish LOVE them! I would start with only giving them peas as a meal for 2-3 days (no other food) and see if this resolves the floating issues. Hope this helps!

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Food is Saki-Hikari Fancy Goldfish food, described as sinking pellet baby sticks and also apparently colour enhancing.

Am currently only giving them a few pellets every other day, so to try and avoid over-burdening the filter! Will try to remember to bring in some frozen peas tomorrow morning!

Thanks for water advice; will do a 50% later today. That said, when/if they do come home with me, our home water really is quite different so they will have to adjust to that one, but I'm guessing this might be next week at least, so hopefully we'll be a bit closer to a cycled tank by then!

 

[jlk]

Good job! I love Hikari & think its great for goldfish (others differ in opinion...). Give the peas a try and lets see what happens. We will get your goldies adjusted when you do bring them home so dont worry! Let us know when your ready for that step & keep up the good work!

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Today's post-weekend update:

Ammonia: looks like 0 (or as near as this tap water gets to it)
Hurrah, cycle stage 1 done??

Nitrite: Oh horribly high, some shade of purple between 2-5...have done one 50% water change, will do another at lunch and then another before I go home.

Friday evening, just before I went home, I put a sachet of bacteria soaked gel from the fish shop onto the filters and then a cup of nutrafin cycle into the water; so hopefully both those things have helped us get where we are.

Fish don't seem too distressed by the terrible nitrite, but they're probably used to it...............shall continue with the water changes regardless of their outward appearance though!

 

[jlk]

Keep up with those water changes!!! Nitrite is just as lethal as ammonia-you want to keep it below .25. Fish actually dont get used to nitrite-nitrite competes with oxygen in the their water and binds hemoglobin (red blood cells) thus preventing the fish from getting oxygen and they will slowly suffocate from lack of oxygen. Keep an eye on everything & keep doing your wcs!!! Good work and keep us posted!

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Nooooooooooo. One of the fish has now got a big white spot on one of his tail fins (possibly two) and the fin is a little folded under.

What do I do if the tank is still cycling?! ARGH! (am going to check the water levels in about 1 hour's time, will post then, guessing I will be doing a 50% water change!)

I'm assuming it's white spot?

 

[jlk]

Oh no!! Lets not assume anything yet. Its most likely your nitrite levels that are causing all the problems. And if it is ich, aquarium salt is going to be the best thing for treatment. Aquarium salt can also help your fish with the nitrite issue because it helps to prevent the nitrite from binding to hemoglobin. Water changes are in order here to get the nitrite levels down! Let us know what your tests show & we will go from there!

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Just tested the nitrite and it was somewhere between 0.25 and 0.5.
Have done a 50% water change and rinsed the filter in the old tank water too, added some more Nutrafin Cycle.

Will test all the readings just before heading home and if needed will do another one! (I only did the nitrite as that was the one I was panicking about but I do want to double-check the ammonia; however I'm going to do it later as otherwise I will spend 3 hours panicking about it and not being able to do anything due to being at work...)

 

[jlk]

Thanks for the update! Def check the ammonia too before heading home & let us know how your fish are doing! Some aquarium salt may be necessary.

 

[cabbagebutterfly]

Tested the ammonia and nitrite this morning:
Ammonia 0 (YAY!)
Nitrite 0.5

Have just done a 50% water change, and have also added 3 tbsp of aquarium salt to start dealing with the ich (pretty sure it is, there were more tiny spots on the bottom of one tail, which have now gone...)

All advice on treating ich with aquarium salt very welcome as I find it kind of confusing! I may also be moving them home on Sunday (they're now officially my fish, yay!) so I don't want to start any daily meds until then as I won't be able to give them on Saturday.

(This is all subject to me being able to find a reasonably priced aquarium by Sunday ofc)

I have also been sold an ich treatment by the fish shop called Protozin Whitespot and Fungus. Any reviews on if this is any good or not are more than welcome.

And obviously advice re moving goldfish welcome too And JLK thank you, you're mostly the only person replying and I REALLY appreciate it!