New member seeking some assistance.

[mrsmills]

Firstly, can I say hi, I've been browsing various topics and decided I really ought to join, so here I am.

The story so far...I had a tank that had been used in some years and decided to recommission it. It purchased a new power head with integral filters, including an active carbon filter, new aquarium gravel, plants, etc. Then left the tank running for a month before introducing fish.

During this time the tank appeared very healthy, the plants began to grow and the water stay clean and clear. I introduced fish approximately 3 weeks ago. Initially, a bubble eye goldfish and two orandas. A week later we introduced a black moore.

All was fine. This week nothing seems to be going right. I discovered an anchor worm on the black moore and then one on the bubble eye. I removed the worms very delicately and the black moore seems fully recovered and very happy. Although I have been adding a product recommended to me by the aquarist from whom we purchased the fish to ensure that any wounds from the worms heal properly.

The bubble eye however is at times very lethargic and simply floats at the top of the tank barely moving. This is interspersed with periods of significant activity but this floating at the top is not normal behaviour.

I have set up the tank so that it is well oxygenated but that the tank décor also creates patches of still water which the bubble eye prefers.

I am concerned he may be constipated judging by his faeces which is very light in colour. Consequently I have introduced small pieces of cucumber and a food block in addition to the flake food that I have been feeding the fish - this, I think is perhaps better for all the fish and particularly for bottom feeder such as the bubble eye. While he seems more interested in this food, the lethargy persists.

In addition to this, the water seems to a slight tinge of green to it, very very slight but I am guessing this is algae of some form? The tank is out direct sunlight in a north facing room and has limited LED lighting in the tank which is only run for a few hours per day. Is the green tinge the result of too much food?

Apologies for the enormous post, just so worried about this little fish.

 

[tawolcott]

Can you post some of the basics?

How big is the tank?
What are the water param's ? Amm, Nitrite, Nitrate, PH (at a minimum)
What are you using to test the water?
Did you cycle the aquarium?
How often and how much for PWC's?

 

[mrsmills]

Hi, thanks for your reply, the tank has a capacity of 12 US gallons.

I have been changing approximately 20% of the water on a weekly basis.

Apart from a small amount of cucumber I have not given them any food 48 hours.

In all honesty I have not tested the aquarium at all so in terms of pH, etc. I couldn't usefully comment, suffice to say the tank is filled with tap water (treated) which is locally very, very soft and has almost no carbonates or other minerals at all so would have started at around 6.

Sorry I can't offer any more.

 

[tawolcott]

What kind of filter?

 

[mrsmills]

Internal with sponge and charcoal filters. 60litres per hour filtration rate. I have gently cleaned the sponges twice in aquarium water.

I think some test strips are required. I shall purchase some post haste. I first got the tank as a kid and kept two small carp in their for 10 and 12 years respectively without any incident which led me into the sense that this was all rather simple. I'm guessing the tank is still not cycling properly and ammonia or other nitrous compounds are building up - clearly this needs to be tested.

 

[cogburn]

dont get the test strips theyre inaccurate... get the api freshwater master kit... great kit print out the online price from petsmart and take it to the store theyll match the price... cheapest one out there... kit is a little hard to understand at first... but after 2 or 3 times youll be a veteran...

 

[mrsmills]

I've 'borrowed' some water quality test strips and a Hanna HI-98160 ph meter from a friend of mine who works in a water quality lab at the university where I work, these apparently are water industry standard for field use. Anyway, here are the results:

NO3 - c.25
NO2 - c.5
General hardness >16 degrees d
Carbonates > 6 degrees d
pH - 7.62

Hope this is useful.

The water it seems is very hard, which is odd as we live in an area noted for the softness of the water and normal absence of calcium carbonates deposits at all.

I should say that the only things in the tank are some pieces of slate used as a back drop which were thoroughly cleaned and then soaked for 5 days in water before being cleaned again and some aquarium grade gravel.

 

[Purrbox]

Looks like your aquarium is cycling currently. Not sure of the units that you posted the NO3 and NO2 levels in, but you'll want to keep Ammonia and Nitrites below 1ppm, even better below 0.5ppm. Water changes are your friend in this situation.

High lights along with the Ammonia from cycling is the probably cause of the Green Water. I wouldn't worry about solving this problem now. The Green Water will actually help keep the Ammonia and Nitrite levels down protecting the fish. Once the cycle is complete there are several options you can try to get rid of it.

 

[mrsmills]

Thanks very much. I have this afternoon done a 25% change with treated tap water - the fish seem instantly happier. The guy I spoke to a local, regionally aquarist centre suggested that a water change at that rate daily for 7 days plus would not necessarily be a bad thing. Any thoughts on that?

Anyway, water is now looking a little better also, I ran the magnets over the tank and I think some of the water colouration is due to build up on the glass but will leave this issue for later.

The bubble eye is now generally more active and seems to be enjoying the areas of quieter water, although still is at time very lethargic, although in between his behaviour is quite normal, very active in fact so perhaps he is just enjoying the new patched of flat water, there are no signs of oxygen distress and the other fish seem generally happy and active. Seems like I've educated myself about cycling just in time!

One final thing - is it okay to use collected rain water and if so should it be mixed with a proportion of tap water?

P.S. NO2/3 readings are mg/l

 

[Purrbox]

I would do a water change anytime your Ammonia or Nitrite get over 1ppm for sure, and definately wouldn't hurt if levels are above 0.5ppm. This could be daily, several times per day, or every few days.

mg/l = ppm (the c in front of the number threw me off)

Whether or not to use the Rain Water depends on how it's collected and stored. Running some tests on the water (GH, KH, etc) will determine whether or not you'll want to use it straight or mix it with tap water. Similar tests on the tap water will determine what proportions to use if mixing.

 

[mrsmills]

Well I've done about a 1/3 change this morning and instantly all the fish just seem so much happier, particularly the little bubble eye so will carry on monitoring the N02/3 levels periodically and making water changes as appropriate. But it is okay to do more than one partial change a day?

 

[Karegg]

As long as you're treating the water you're adding and it's the same temperature, more PWCs are pretty much never a bad thing. Any time your levels are too high, swap out some water and your fish will thank you big time.

 

[mrsmills]

That's fantastic, thank you. I can't believe how quickly they react. Is it normal to continue with such frequent PWC's while the tank is cycling is does this phase tend to only last a couple of weeks or less? Obviously, it's not problem doing it but I don't want to be over-zealous.

 

[Karegg]

Generally it's better to cycle your tank without having fish in it, but if that's not happening, the best thing you can do for your aquatic buddies is to keep their water clean. During cycling, I guess if you did become extremely PWC-addicted you could end up changing out so much water to cause the bacteria to colonize more slowly, but I wouldn't worry about that. So, to answer your question, I'd do a PWC every 1-2 days plus additional PWCs whenever levels are too high.

Cycling your tank will take anywhere from 2 - 8 weeks, but I think most people get through theirs in about a month. After cycling, PWC's are commonly done just once or twice a week, though exceptions are made whenever levels are high (but, after the cycle, high levels of ammonia or NO2 usually indicate a problem).

 

[mrsmills]

That's great thank you. For future reference. How does the tank cycle without fish, do you put them in, allow an amount of ammonia to build up to allow the growth of a bacterial population then remove the fish for a time? I did let the tank establish without fish for 3 weeks or so but presumably without fish there is no ammonia with which to begin the cycle.

Just as a P.S. the values on this mornings test are significantly improved, less hardness, above average NO2/3 but much improved. Will let the fish relax a bit then do a further change later in the day.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Karegg]

There are a couple common methods of fishless cycling. No fish are necessary, but you have the right idea. Rather than using fish to produce ammonia as waste, you can simply get the ammonia from an inorganic source. Ace Hardware stores sell pure ammonia that you can add, or another popular method is to use shrimp from the grocery store. Just put them in, let them decay (which produces the ammonia) and the bacteria will build up just the same as they would with fish in the tank, except there are no fish present to be subjected to the constantly changing water conditions.

Because it is considered so much more humane, most aquarists will strongly suggest fishless cycling. Once the cycle completes, just add fish slowly, usually just 1-2 at a time. This will allow more bacteria to build up to accommodate the new ammonia-producing fish. Wait a week or two then add 1-2 more fish, and so on, each time allowing the bacteria population to catch up with the new "bio load," as it is called.

 

[mrsmills]

I feel awful for not having done it, I thought I'd researched this pretty well. Not that it's anyone's fault but my own but I can't believe fish are sold without asking the question, "have you cycled the tank?"

It's all so obvious now, I somehow seem to have totally not considered this. Fingers crossed all will be well, luckily I work from home all but one or two days a week and the tank is on my home office about three feet away from me so I can keep an eye on it at all times!

 

[Karegg]

Hey, don't sweat it. You're already off to a much, much better start than many others in the hobby. I myself am new, but have learned a ton from everyone on the forums. It's a great place!

 

[pitt420dude]

I feel awful for not having done it, I thought I'd researched this pretty well. Not that it's anyone's fault but my own but I can't believe fish are sold without asking the question, "have you cycled the tank?"

It's all so obvious now, I somehow seem to have totally not considered this. Fingers crossed all will be well, luckily I work from home all but one or two days a week and the tank is on my home office about three feet away from me so I can keep an eye on it at all times!

LFS's are for-profit, so take this into account when considering their advice. They survive by having aquarists purchase (products, livestock, anything) form them.

YOu're doing fine, just keep up the good work and keep asking questions about anything you're unsure of. Thats sweet you can work from home, I bet your fish are much better off for it.

 

[mrsmills]

Thanks a lot. After some frequent water changes, nitrous levels are beginning to decline and a significant reduction in feeding has cleared the water and the bubble eye who I think may have been suffering from constipation seems to have benefitted also, for the first time in over a week he is swimming freely back at the bottom of the tank, fins fully extended, etc. Quite a dramatic week with them but actually I feel very satisfied I've been able to turn it around.

One more question. I have been periodically removing the sponge filters from the filter and cleaning them in water from the aquarium. Thinking about it, presumably this is one of the primary sites where the bacteria are to be found? With this is mind when, if ever, should I clean this sponges and if I do so will this lead to a spike in ammonia levels?