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I also would not add any thing but the dechlorinator to the water. I think if i was you I would tear down the tank and get new gravel and new filter media, bleach the tank and the filter rinse it over and over and then do a fishless cycle and just start over like the tank was brand new. Just this time listen to the experts on this site they are really good and know what they are talking about.
Welcome to AA your fishes best friends
 
I am sorry to hear about your troubles .... this reminds me of a thread I read a few years ago on the pond newsgroup .... the story was the same, fish dying one after another, eventually the problem was traced to a pesticide used near the pond.

I think your problems are either water chemistry related or toxins in the system.

I do not think that this is an infection - nothing I know will kill new fish that fast (hours) without some signs on the dead fish (such as massive hemorrhage, etc.) Fish tb is a wasting disease that typically kill over months ... I don't think that is your problem ...

I think we need to get back to basics & start with your water. I agree with all that was said about NOT doctoring your water needlessly. Stability is key. I think you need to first check your tap water chemistry (KH, GH, pH, NH3, NO2, NO3), both immediately from the tap, after treating it with dechlorinator, and after letting a sample sit in room air for 24 hrs (shake occassionally to equilibrate with room air). Post the 3 sets of results with the current tank parameters (if possible, historical data sets so we can see any trends). This may give us some clue on what is going on with the water.

The fact that your water pH creeps UP makes me suspect dissolved CO2 in your tap (very common in deep well water) out gassing .... although this usually happens over a day or 2, & from your post it sounds like the pH creep takes longer.

I would also suggest NOT using anything in the tank except a good dechlorinator with pwc. The only other additive that might be necessary is bicarbonate/carbonate as buffer IF your KH is very low. (Is this the crystals you are adding??) We cannot recommend messing with the KH unless we know the KH value of the tap water.

What dechlorinator you are using?? City water is now mostly disinfected with chloramines. Very old style dechlor may not treat chloramines. I am not sure if these old formulations are still on the market .... but this was a consideration in the 80's & 90's.

Also, check your city water report, make sure there is no heavy metals or other nasties in your water.

If your water parameters checks out, then we must presume some kind of toxins in the tank at the start. Pesticides can lasts for years .... the pond pesticide posts I mentioned earlier traced the pesticide use to some 2 years before the incident (then they had a minor flood during topup & washed the residue into the pond ... and had fish deaths - all old fish plus introduced new fish - for months until the cause was identified.)
 
An t-iasg said:
You said your water is very soft, right, so you don't test for any hardness value?

It would be helpful to test for KH (carbonate hardness). A decent KH value stabilizes the pH. A KH of 1-3 is considered low. I'm not sure what a moderate or high range would be. My KH is 5 (probably a moderate level) and my pH stays stable. If your KH is very low, your pH can swing. That's why adding the pH down/up products are not usually advised. If your KH is low, there are no stabilizing buffers present in the water and the pH adjusting products just cause pH swings. If the KH is high (probably in the 6+ range) the water contains many stabilizing buffers and will resist the pH swings. You may then add more of the ph adjuster if you don't see a pH change. More of these types of products over time are stressful to fish. The pH down product is an acid, so adding more and more acid over time isn't good for fish.

The pH in your tank was 7.6 at its highest reading? 7.6 is a fine pH for tropical fish. There's no need to adjust that at all.

If you have a good KH value to begin with, then your weekly water changes replenish those buffers that make up the KH value - keeping your pH stable.
Click to expand...

I was told by sooo many "experts" I don't need to test for KH . Since they all told me the same thing, I believed them. I will get a kH tester ASAP and test the tap water. In the event my tap water naturally has a low KH, what do I do?

The PH once got to 7.6 after I got back from a 5 week holiday. My test scale doesn't go any higher than that.

I saw people saying when browsing the forums last night that PH can be high without a concern... That was really interesting to read.... I've been told consistently in the past to keep that pH level to suit the breed of fish in my tank... I know I've been given the odd bit of dodgy advice here and there, but to keep the pH neutral very consistent and common request. I'm amazed now to hear that this may not be the truth.

BTW, I use these testing kits. I assume that they are ok?
http://www.aquariumpharm.com/en_us/productCategory.asp?categoryname=TestKits
 
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Hi Jsoong

"I think you need to first check your tap water chemistry (KH, GH, pH, NH3, NO2, NO3), both immediately from the tap, after treating it with dechlorinator, and after letting a sample sit in room air for 24 hrs (shake occassionally to equilibrate with room air). Post the 3 sets of results with the current tank parameters"

Okay... I will get a kH test and do that ASAP.

What is GH?? I can't recall seeing a test for that... What's it measure?
 
my disus tank stay around 5.5, and they love it. I dont think its PH related.

Do you spay chemicals around the house? Burn scented candles?
 
trotty said:
my disus tank stay around 5.5, and they love it. I dont think its PH related.

Do you spay chemicals around the house? Burn scented candles?
Click to expand...

Burn scented candles, no. Use Windex on the glass top table to clean it once a fortnight. But had the issue before the glass top table arrived.


Back in 30 mins. Goin to get those test kits.
 
Gh is "General hardness" ... in practical terms, it measures the amount of Ca & Mg in your water. You don't usually need to worry too much about GH, except that in this case the GH acts as a cross check against KH in case there is a secondary buffer present.

Looking at your water quality report, your GH is the "Hardness CaCO3" = 15 mg/l, and your KH is "Alkalinity" = 15 mg/l. Both are low, indicating acidic water. Since both are the same, you do not have a secondary buffer in the water.

With low GH & KH, it is prudent to add some buffer to maintain pH stability. I think this is reason for the recommendation to add your " conditioning crystals". Does the product has a chemical analysis on it .... it would help since we are not familiar with the product in question.

With your GH & KH number, I don't think dissolved CO2 is a problem ... strike one off the list.

What is in your tank - substrate & decorations .... any rock, gravel, shell, coral or other source of carbonates. This will cause a slow rise in pH.

With soft acidic water, having a carbonate source in the tank is not a bad thing .... it will naturally provide buffers. However, the goal in that case is to maintain youor tank at the equilibrium pH (wich will be in the mid to high 7's) and NOT keep trying to bring it back down. You will also need to buffer your change water to the tank pH, and to slowly drip acclimatize all new fish to your tank pH. And it is true, it is better to acclimatize your fish to a stable pH than to keep trying to chase a "perfect" pH and ending up with pH swings.

Anyway, check your tank KH. If it is significantly higher than your tap, then you have a carbonate source in the tank.
 
I've completed the test results as asked......

Straight from the tap:

PH = 6.6
NH3 = 0 ppm
NO2 = 0 ppm
NO3 = 0 ppm (I did this twice)
KH = 1 drop (17.9 ppm KH/GH) - it was never blue!
GH = 4 drops (71.6 ppm ppm KH/GH)

Tap water de-chlorinated with Nutrifin AquaPlus (see link from earlier post):

PH = 6.6
NH3 = 0 ppm
NO2 = 0 ppm
NO3 = 0 ppm
KH = 2 drops (35.8 ppm KH/GH)
GH = 3 drops (53.7 ppm ppm KH/GH)

Tap water de-chlorinated with Nutrifin AquaPlus - After letting a sample sit in room air for 24 hrs

PH = 6.6 to 6.8
NH3 = 0 ppm
NO2 = 0 ppm
NO3 = 0 ppm
KH = 2 drops (35.8 ppm KH/GH)
GH = 3 drops (53.7 ppm ppm KH/GH)

Exact Tank Info
60 cm wide
30 cm long
36 cm tall
15G/60L

Fluval 2Plus internal Filter
200W heater
25 degrees c (77 f)
Substrate is a mix of 2 gravels from the local aquarium store.
I have two fake plants. Live plants seemed never to last long so I bought some fakes several months ago.
Only other decoration is a tunnel thing which I bought with the fake plants. Prior to that I used to buy mostly wood peices with plants on them and swords from time to time. It just strted getting expensive to replace once a month.

I've posted a pic of the tank here...
http://www.sharoncarpenter.com/Images/IMG_1376.JPG
 
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jsoong said:
With low GH & KH, it is prudent to add some buffer to maintain pH stability. I think this is reason for the recommendation to add your " conditioning crystals". Does the product has a chemical analysis on it .... it would help since we are not familiar with the product in question.
Click to expand...

Nope. Just says to add a teaspoon of Aquamaster Condition Salts to each 10L (2.5G) of water. No chemical composition listed.

I think I'll stop using it. I got no idea if it is hardening the water or softening it. I guess I can use the KH test to find out.
 
Just a thought.. have you checked for stray voltage in the tank? I don't know how fast it would affect the new fish, or why Bill would have survived.. but who knows? <shrug>
 
JeffreyL said:
The soap smell concerns me. You may very well have a lotion or some other additive in the soap that stays on your hands.

I use non scented dish soap on my hands, and forearms if neccessary and rinse like crazy.

Although this would not account for your issues getting worse. Unless you have switched soaps or use more than one??
Click to expand...

It's just normal liquid hand soap I keep on the sink. Usually it is scented. I can stop using that soap if it's possible it might cause an issue, but as I say, I do give a gooooood rinse before drying my hands (and I always grab a fresh tea towel, just in case).

What's everyone else use to wash their hands prior to handling a tank?
 
Next time you go to your LFS get them to test phosphates. Might be a wild goose chase but worth a try.

My sister lives in Melbourne and had issues with losing fish in her aquarium and she ended up using a phosphate removing pad in her filter. I had never heard of this before but it seemed to do the trick and solved her problem.

Not sure why or how phosphate impacted on the fish.... usually causes algae problems.
 
Couple quick things. I find it odd that you're using city water and that your nitrates are coming out at zero. When I used to use tap water I always had some level of nitrate (<5) not to mention phosphate and silica problems. Maybe take a tap water sample and a water sample to be tested.

The other thing is that back in the day I tried using aquarium salts as well. I was losing fish left and right. I quit after multiple water changes and all went back to normal.. coincidence?

One more thing to try is to get one, maybe 2 new fish.. do 50% water changes with bottled water (nothing else. no additives, nothing) several times until you're fully diluted
 
tawolcott said:
Couple quick things. I find it odd that you're using city water and that your nitrates are coming out at zero.
Click to expand...

It doesn't happen often, but it has happened before. It usually registers 5-ish.

Edit 29/01 - I did this test again... Mayyyybe it might be 1. More like zero to me.
 
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mattrox said:
Next time you go to your LFS get them to test phosphates. Might be a wild goose chase but worth a try.

My sister lives in Melbourne and had issues with losing fish in her aquarium and she ended up using a phosphate removing pad in her filter. I had never heard of this before but it seemed to do the trick and solved her problem.

Not sure why or how phosphate impacted on the fish.... usually causes algae problems.
Click to expand...


Phosphates are common in sydney water.... Not to mention because of the low water levels in the dam they are double dosing chlorines... to kill of the cryptospiridium and Blue green...
 
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