New Tank Issues...

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bms314

Aquarium Advice Newbie
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
3
Location
Eastern Pennsylvania
Hello!

I have been getting conflicting/questionable information from my LFS… just looking for a second opinion : )

We have a 75 gal non planted tank that was set up on 1/10/18. 4 Cherry Barbs were put into the tank while it was cycling but I assume that still kind of counts as a fishless cycle.

Anyway…

Mid February – I think we experienced a bacteria bloom. The tank got so cloudy we could barely see the décor inside. An employee at the LFS said do one 50% water change immediately and do another 50% water change the next week so we did and no progress was made....

We went back to the store and spoke to another employee who said the large water changes were detrimental as we removed all of the bacteria and interfered with the cycling process. She said to stop all water changes for now and add Seachem Stability, following the instructions for a new tank. After a few days everything started to clear up but never got back to the crystal-clear water we had originally.

3/10 – Took a water sample in to the LFS, they said the tank was cycled and everything was reading great now. We came home with 4 German Blue Rams, 4 Gold Rams, and 4 Rosey Barbs (16 total fish, now). The employee advised us to over feed the fish 2-3 times a day so the Rams didn’t have to compete with the Barbs for food… So we did …

3/13 – 2 Gold Rams were dead and our water was starting to get cloudy again, took the dead fish and a water sample into the LFS and the levels were reading high. This employee said over feeding was a horrible idea and was the cause of the toxins in the water. Advised us to dose it with Fritz Zyme 7, and feed once every 2 days and to still not do any water changes.

3/19 – 1 more ram was dead but the head of a cherry barb was to the one side of it, and the tail was on the other side of it… So that may not have been related to water conditions.
We got a test kit and have been checking the water ourselves the past few days…

3/16
pH 8.2 PPM
Ammonia 1.0 PPM
Nitrite 0.5 PPM
Nitrate 0 PPM

3/17
pH 8.2 PPM
Ammonia 1.0 PPM
Nitrite 0.5 PPM
Nitrate 5 PPM

3/18
pH 8.2 PPM
Ammonia 1.0 PPM
Nitrite 0.5 PPM
Nitrate 5 PPM

Questions

I am confused as to what is happening with our tank right now… I thought I understood the initial cycling process, and I understand how the 50% water changes took all of the beneficial bacteria out of the tank… And I understood the overfeeding created toxins in the gravel… But after the overfeeding incident I don’t understand how adding bacteria and not doing water changes would solve that specific issue?

Should I really not be doing water any water changes…?

I assume my German Blue ram ate (or tried to eat) the Cherry Barb today… should I put the Cherry Barbs in another tank so that doesn’t happen again? While I am not overly upset about the loss of a Cherry Barb, I do really, really love the Rams.

One of the Gold Rams lost its coloration about a week ago just after bringing it home, but it is still active, eating well, and appears in good health, any Idea what could be going on with it?
 
I wouldn’t listen to either employee. Wcs are never detrimental as long as the water isn’t way off in temp or something. Bacteria doesn’t live in the water column but more so on your decor and gravel and filter media. Your tank is still cycling it seems as you have detectable ammonia. Rams are super sensitive and 95% of the time when bought from a store they come from poor stock. They definitely didn’t eat your barb as they aren’t big enough. They’re a fish that shouldn’t be added until the tank is well established and stable 6-8 months down the road.

What do you still have in the system? It sounds like you overloaded the biofiltration too by adding 12 more fish. I’d definitely keep up the 50% wcs to keep ammonia as close to 0 as possible.
When your cycle actually finishes you will see
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-high (can vary but will probably be above 10-20)
This means your tank is now converting all ammonia and nitrite into nitrates and has enough bacteria to cover what fish are in the tank as you’re doing a fish in cycle. At this point I’d slowly add a few more fish (3-4). Then monitor for a week or two. If the bacteria can keep up add a couple more fish and so on and so on. It should take 2-3 months or more to fully stock that tank.

You can fully stock tanks immediately but you’d have to be fishless cycling and dosing ammonia at high levels to simulate large bioloads.

Btw unless you find a lfs with great employees is always ask here for advice before asking a store. I used to work at an lfs and what ppl would tell me they heard at stores like pet I and petsmart would horrify me. Even some other lfs had idiots working the fish. Hence why I don’t ask for advice on fish from stores (now I am mostly sw but still) unless I’ve been in there a lot and found someone I can really trust.
 
Thank you for the information!

We will go back to doing the water changes and keep an eye on the ammonia.

I had initially read the Rams needed a more established tank, like you said, but the store didn’t seem to think that was necessary, so unfortunately, I took their advice. Lesson learned!

We still have 12 fish (3 German Blue Rams, 2 Gold Rams, 4 Rosey Barbs, and 3 Cherry Barbs). 4 of the 5 Rams left seem to be doing well at the moment.

And you mentioned adding 3-4 more fish at a time… are you saying its okay to do that right now before we have the ammonia levels at 0, or did you mean after we get that under control?
 
No more fish before ammonia goes and stays at zero...
Keep ammonia under 1 ppm.Most with experience don't want to see you let the ammonia go over .5 ..
The amount of water you change is the amount the nutrient will be reduced.
50% minimum water change when you get 1ppm ammonia will get you back to .5
Prime can be used to convert ammonia and nitrite to less toxic forms .
Use it every 2 days at about 3-4 times what is needed for full tank volume.
The ammonia and nitrite will still show on test but this may save your fish in the long run. I agree the ram did not kill the barb...The barbs are going to kill the rams if there is any homicidal activities...
Sounds like your LFS is just a sales depot....Selling stuff to put in water and not recommending water changes for a tank with fish [rams ] in it ???
 
Bribo and Coralbandit both gave good advice. The one thing I would suggest in addition is using either Seachem Stability or Dr. Tim's "One and Only" as a jump-start for your biological filter. Stability is less expensive, but slower to work, while One and Only is faster, but more expensive. (I would only buy it from the maker, just be aware that shipping is pricey). I can't speak to other products, but I've used both of these with good results. They won't "instantly" cycle your tank, but they will shorten the process when used as directed.
 
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