New Tank/Neon Tetra Help :eek:

[Emily426]

I am feeling very frustrated because I thought I took the right steps in setting up my tank but I have already lost 6 Neon Tetras.

The tank I purchased is Aqueon's 13 gallon widescreen and includes a 50 watt heater as well at the Quietflow 10 (which looks to be rated for 20 gallons). I started cycling my water with Tetra's SafeStart Plus and API's Tapwater Conditioner about 12-14 days ago. At that time I put in several plants (2 marimo balls and some other ones that I don't remember the names of but I can post photos if that would make a difference.)

About a week ago, I had my water tested at the pet store and was told it was in really good shape. The only thing slightly off according to them was my water was a little high on the pH/alkaline so I added API's pH down. I also ordered my own kit for testing my water on Amazon because I realized that I would need more than the little test strips I was using/running out to the pet store.

Then on Friday, I took a water sample in to PetSmart and was told it looked great. I asked about which fish I should start with if I was interested in longterm mixing the Neon Tetras with some Glofish Tetras. The employee suggested I start with the smaller ones so they did not have issues getting picked on. I questioned whether or not I should start with 2-3 fish to prevent my water levels from spiking and he felt like since it was best to keep them in a group, I should be fine with 5.

So I bought my 5 Neon Tetras and brought them home. I floated the bag in my aquarium for about 20 minutes (the temp of my tank has been a stable 76 degrees F). Then I started to add a little of my tank water to the bag of water. After about 35-40 minutes, I added the fish.

At first the group seemed really to acclimate well; they swam around the tank together and had no issues navigating any areas. I did not feed them because I had gotten them at about 6 pm and thought it could wait.

Sadly, I woke up to all 5 of my fish being dead and suctioned to the filter intake. My first fear was that the filter was too strong, but thinking about it further I felt like I would have seen evidence of that when they were swimming, right? Plus there are plenty of spots for the fish to hide/rest if that were the case.

So then I was thinking it was my water somehow. I took another sample to Petco this time thinking a different opinion might help. I was told my water was perfect and when I asked if maybe I had not cycled it for long enough the girl reassured me it should be fine by what she saw on the test. She also said that because I had plants, added food to speed up the bacteria feeding, and the Tetra Safe I could have thrown my fish in within 48 hours-not waited the 12+ days.

Today I decided to return my fish to Petsmart. I brought another water sample in and again was told that my water was just right. I asked several employees if they had any thoughts as to why my fish died all in the first night then. I still feel like something has to be off that it happened so suddenly. I described how I acclimated the fish and then one employee suggested I change about 25% of my water and try again. He suggested this time I let the bag float for 45 minutes and do nothing to acclimate the fish to the water conditions like I had before.

Well I started my fish in my tank about 5 hours ago per the instructions of the Petsmart employee. However, 1 of the fish has died. I am concerned that 2 of the 4 are hanging out at the surface a lot. My boyfriend suggested I feed them-which the other 2 ate-but the 2 at the surface did not. I almost feel certain that they are going to die by morning.


My API Freshwater Master Test Kit is supposed to arrive on Tuesday so I can post exact test results then. Otherwise, what suggestions does anyone have for me in the meantime?

I'm guessing it is most likely my water?
I don't think that the filter intake is the issue, even though all 5 were stuck on it Saturday morning. The one that died tonight was in the fake plants and no where near the filter intake.

Is there anything telling about the fish hanging out at the surface? It almost looks like one was moving his mouth like he was eating but he wasn't going for the food. I looked into if the oxygen levels could be off but since this tank has a wider layout and surface area, it seems like that shouldn't be an issue.

Help in any way would be really appreciated. I am frustrated that I am failing even though I have been told everything looks good when I go to various petstores.

 

[Coursair]

Don't mess with your PH. Return that bottle. It's much more important to have stable conditions if you add chemicals it bounces your values up-and-down and that is harder on the fish. Gasping at the surface can be a few things.

With Neons, drip acclimation is usually the way to go. Leaving them in in the bag for 45 minutes just made the water in the bag that much worse.
When you add the new fish to the fish tank are you leaving the lights off ?? that can help with the initial stress , leave the lights off for a few hours after adding new fish. Neons can be sensitive. I'll be curious what your API kit shows on your values.

With the new tank, your main concern is ammonia. I would buy some prime conditioner because if you ever need to you can use up to five times normal amounts to help keep fish safe temporarily from ammonia.

When I don't know what's wrong I usually do a partial water change just in case I just make sure the water matches the temperature as best I can and that I condition the water before it touches my tank.

If you continue to lose fish, talk to your water company and see if they have added any chemicals or have been flushing lines or done anything unusual.



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[crtc_01]

I added a dozen neon tetras two days using the float the bag method. I floated for 45mins and then added some tank water a few times every couple of minutes. Then dumped half of the bag water out and continued to add tank water to the bag another 5/6 times. Mines 55gallons though and I left the ph at 7.8. I cycled for 35days using using a used filter in the canister. After that I changed 90percent of the water and then did 10gallon water changes every day to bring the rest of the nitrates down. I also use seachem prime everytime I add water. Today I had 0ammonia/0nitrites/10-20nitrates. At the same time I added the tetras I added 2 DG and today I added 6 cory cats. I have well water and KH is 10. All seems well so far.

 

[ScotJudd]

Hi Emily. Sorry to hear that your initial introduction of fish ended that way. New tanks can be quite unstable, as can badly maintained older tanks. Neons, and cardinals for that matter, can be particularly difficult to acclimatise and introduce to a tank but to a new tank is a big ask.
Getting your water tested at the LFS is not the best way forward. You need a liquid test kit of your own to monitor water daily, if necessary, in the early days. Prime is an excellent product if ammonia or nitrites creep up. Just dose it at the full tank dosage and it will protect the fish for about 24 hrs. If the ammonia or nitrites are still high then dose the following day etc, until these figures drop to zero.
Neons have been extensively farmed and bred due to their popularity and are widely thought to be quite weak genetically. You might have more luck with other tetras, that are hardier, to start out with. Rummy nose and lemon tetras have did well in my tank when it was new, as did harlequin Rasbora (not a tetra but similar in size and manner).
I've totally given up with neons and now am building up my shoal of cardinals. Now the tank is well established and heavily planted they are being quite successful.
Don't give up, enjoy your tank - looks great by the way.


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[Robcurry12]

In addition to what everyone else said, Neon tetras are rather fragile fish as they've been overbred and inbred as a result of their popularity. This makes them extra sensitive to any imbalances that come with a new tank. I'm sorry you had to experience this :/ I would try adding tetras in my old tank when it was well established and they almost never survived longer than 2 months. As colorful as they are, I usually stay away from them now. You have a beautiful setup by the way! Good luck

 

[Emily426]

Update with Water Test Results & 1 Lone Survivor

THANK YOU all for your help-I am somewhat relieved that the problem was not glaringly obvious/my fault.

Since my original post more of the Neon Tetras died. I am now down to 1...he seems to have really pale colors when I first turn on the light in the morning but he gains his coloring back and seems to be swimming through out the tank (not just hanging out at the top.) I'm hoping he will continue to pull through.

I got my Freshwater Test Kit and feel like the results were not exactly perfect (I'm new at this so help with interpreting the results is more than welcome.)

Nitrite & Nitrate looks nice and low from what I see. The ammonia looks like it might be .25-.50. Should I do a partial water change? Any suggestions what percentage?

A couple people have told me to not worry about pH, but I still feel like I should try to lower it a bit. The first time I ran the test it came back at the highest end of the spectrum so I redid the test with the "high range" pH test and feel like I am around 8-8.2, thoughts?

Since Neon Tetras are supposed to be in groups, what should I do now that I have just 1 survivor? Should I try to add 2 more from a different pet store and do even slower acclimations with water drips?

Thank you, thank you, thank you again! I'm glad people like my set up too I didn't feel like I could go any bigger than a 13 gallon tank so I tried to get the most bang for my space.

 

[Robcurry12]

I'm still a newbie to the whole testing/water chemistry thing but in regards to re stocking your neon school, I would seriously consider maybe getting a hardier schooling fish/tetra. They have become not one of the hardier of fish. It's really unfortunate cause their colors are quite beautiful. Personally I've had a single neon live for about 6 months after his school mates died so the one you have left might be just fine.

 

[crtc_01]

Your nitrites look elevated. It's hard to tell from the pictures but it looks dark blue, not a light color. The ammonia is also elevated. Also what's the temp?

 

[ScotJudd]

Hi Emily.
Your test results. Ammonia looks to be about 0.5, it should be below 0.25, so add some Prime to detoxify the water and do a 50% water change.
Your nitrites don't look in the purple range but a very dark blue, strange as it is very pale blue when nitrites as zero and then slowly gets more lilac to purple as the nitrites rise. Did you only use 5 drops of the nitrite tester, maybe you used more and got the darker blue colour.
Your nitrates are zero.
All this means that your tank is NOT cycled and cannot easily sustain fish.
My advice is either when the last fish dies, or you return it to the LFS, is to undertake a fish less cycle using pure ammonia. There are a lot of very good threads on fish less cycling.
Then when you tank is robustly cycled you can add you fish in the knowledge that the tank can handle their waste.
Fish less cycling is a great way for you to learn the chemistry of the tank whilst not harming any fish should you make a mistake. I wish this had been the case in my early fish keeping years (too long ago) and I might not have lost so many fish.
See if you can get some seeded 'dirty' filter material from a friend or the LFS and put it in your filter to kick start the bacteria growth. It's probably the easiest and quickest way to cycle a tank.
Good luck. Keep in touch.


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[Emily426]

Your nitrites look elevated. It's hard to tell from the pictures but it looks dark blue, not a light color. The ammonia is also elevated. Also what's the temp?

The temp is 76 & I agree about the ammonia. What would you suggest as a partial water change?

I think the nitrites are fine because this picture looks darker than looks darker than it is in real life

 

[crtc_01]

The temp is 76 & I agree about the ammonia. What would you suggest as a partial water change?

I think the nitrites are fine because this picture looks darker than looks darker than it is in real life

I would take ScotJudd advice. It doesn't sound like your tank is cycled. You should have Nitrates in the water. I have heard most people say to keep them under 40ppm unless you add sensitive fish that number would be much lower. If all you have is Neons with a cycled tank, you shouldn't have any issues keeping ammonia and nitrites at 0. I have 12neons, 2 DG and 10cory cats. My morning test are 0/0/10ppm.

 

[Eggheadfish]

Hi emily,
Lots of great advice on here and it's glad to see you're doing research!
Your targets are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20 or less

Fish respiration, waste, and uneaten food contribute to ammonia being present in the water. It would explain why your fish were gasping at the surface. Bacteria need to grow to consume the ammonia. Once they do, you'll see a drop in ammonia and a spike in nitrite. Again, more bacteria will colonize which consume the nitrite and produce nitrate.
In any case, if you can get your hands on some Prime it helps detoxify the ammonia for the fish remaining. If it dies, you will have to supplement the tank with an ammonia source to get the bacteria growing and create a habitable environment for the fish.
For now, water changes will help dilute the ammonia.
I also agree with other posters on not trying to alter the ph. All of my fish are kept in ph8 tap water with no problems. Stability is more important than perfection.
Best of luck!