New tank plans...

[Snowfire]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this site but have had a good look around and am making plans for my new tank.
I have had a 110L (30g) tank running for about 2 years with the original PF3 filter and after initial teething problems (difficult fish in cycle) it had been going fine. around 6 weeks ago I lost a couple of fish (no obvious disease) so had my water checked at LFS which showed ammonia. My once cute little fish (2 angels and 2 SAE) have grown quite big and are causing problems by bullying my smaller placid species and I think the tank is overstocked. I decided to add a new external filter (aqua one Aquis 750) to run with the pf3 and water levels have settled down fine since then.
I have now decided to get a second larger tank 330L (90G) which should be delivered next week with the idea being I can move out the bigger fish and add some more larger species with maybe some large tetras to schoal.
Before I get too excited about new fish I want to make sure I can cycle the tank properly so that I don't lose anyone!
I have a rough plan:
1) Set up tank using some of the sand substrate from my 110L plus 2 large amazon sword plants which are currently overtaking the small tank will also use some new gravel and add other new plants.
2) fill with water and add declorinator (API Stress coat, I've seen Prime mentioned but don't know of anywher that sells this), switch the heater on and start the filter running. Leave overnight to warm up and settle.
3) Next morning rinse out filter medium to remove dirt/sedement and reassemble. The tank has a trickle filter built into the hood and a 900L/h power head. Into this I will add the dirty sponge from my pf3 as I'm planning to stop using this now that I have the new external filter. start the filter running.
4) I'm not sure where I can get pure ammonia (in UK), so intend to use some prawns (not sure how many) sewn into an old stocking as my ammonia source.
5) Leave this running for a few days then check levels until it all settles down to ammonia-0 Nitrite-0 and Nitrate is present.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan? I would love to hear any other ideas!
Also could anyone recommend good tank mates for angels? I have soft water (4dgh) and pH in 110L is usually around 6.6/6.8. I expect this tank to be roughly the same. I would eventually like discus, would this work?

 

[Gawang]

Good plan, however. I'd recommend dechlorinating the water before you enter into the tank, as the bacteria in the gravel may be killed in the process before the water is completely dechlorinated. As well, some plants can be sensitive to chlorinated water, so I'd recommend leaving them out until the water is dechlorinated. As well, you might not have to worry about much of a spike at all, and may not need to cycle the new tank. Keeps the old filters running on the new tank, and try to import. But this only works if your getting rid of the old tank.


PS: If you want to add new fish into the tank, in a large 90 gallon tank you could try to keep Angelfish and Discus together. But you'll need a few more of the Angels to prevent their occasional nippy attitudes towards their own species

 

[jlk]

Cycling with prawns will take a bit longer than a few days or a week. The prawns will need to start to breakdown in order to introduce ammonia into your tank. With a 90g, you wil probably need quite a few in order to create enough ammonia to cycle the tank. Fishless cycling from scratch takes on average of 4-6wks (or longer). Using established media will speed this up signifigantly but do not use the media from your est tank if you are going to throw it back into a cycle. If you plan on not using you present tank, you can move all of the media/filter over to the new tank & move your fish & just monitor your water parameters for a few wks to make sure there are no spikes in amm/nitrite. Good luck & keep us posted!

 

[Snowfire]

Thanks for your reply Gawang!

Perhaps I could half fill the tank with water and dechlorinate before adding new (rinsed) gravel then leave to warm up with new filter running.
When settled add plants and sand from older tank plus new plants & driftwood (?).
If, as you say i wont need to cycle tge tank, I could I then add the pf3 filter (intact) along with 6 new diamond tetras, the (naughty) angels & the larger SAE?
I'm not planning to keep the pf3 filter long term and will just have the aqua one external filter running on the 110L tank from now on which should be ok.
I could then gradually add warm dechlorinated water as if doing a pwc.
Do you think that would work?

 

[Snowfire]

Thanks Jik, I didn't see your response as I was typing/ thinking.
I don't think I would I would need to cycle the old tank again as the new (bigger filter has been running alongside the pf3 for over a month now so should have a good supply of bacteria built up.

 

[jlk]

Rinse the gravel well before using it (use a pillow case). Match the new tanks water temp to that of your old tank, dechlorinate, & fill. Add any decorations you are using. If you are using sand from your old tank, add this slowly. Once the sand settles, move the est filter over & start everything. You are now good to move your fish. Then just monitor the new tank for the next 2-3wks or so to make sure there are no spikes in amm/nitrite (do pwcs if there are).

 

[Snowfire]

Thanks jik,
Can't wait to get the tank now!
I'm going to get the gravel tomorrow so it can be rinsed and ready when I get the tank up & ready. Thanks for the pillow case tip, I'll dig out an old one tonight

 

[Gawang]

So long as you dont add any new fish into your tank, your old filter can handle the bioload of your current fish no problemo! In general, about 50-80% of your bacteria lives in or around the filter in the cartridges or on the filter media/post media.

Also, have you got any pictures of your new tank? I'd love to see what everything looks like once you get it all in there!

 

[FishyPhil]

Hiya. Im in the UK too. You can buy ammonia from homebase. Just ask for their household ammonia. Its about £2.60 for 500ml. Would definitely stay away from the prawns if you can help it as I've heard there are a few negatives to them (although have no experience using that method!

I have been using the above ammonia and am nearly close to cycled on day 28 (no mature media used) so i reckon you'll do really well with your old tank!

I would love discus! My tank is a bit too small at 125litres, so I've decided that ill have to buy a bigger tank in the near future for them

Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[Snowfire]

Thanks for your interest everyone!

I've heard that the tank will be delivered on Monday next week, so I've got to re-organise my dining room and paint the wall where it's going to be as I don't want to have to try & move it once set up (why is no job simple?)
I was in homebase today buying an extra bucket to help with all the extra pwcs I'll doubtless be doing in the near future, I could have looked for ammonia if I'd thought about it! I think I will stick with the plan of not cycling the tank and just moving a few fish straight in along with the old filter.
I've bought some nice small rounded gravel and some more sand as I would like a natural 'river' look to the tank. i've also bought a few pieces of bog wood, which are currently soaking in my new bucket and some plants which are still potted and temporarily housed in the 110L tank.
I can't wait to get the plan underway and will definitely post some pics when I have something to show!
What sort of fish are you planning to keep FishyPhil?

 

[FishyPhil]

I think i have considered every possible combination of fish over the last month, but with smaller tanks you always seem to hit a obstacle with either aggression or size! My favs i have to say are discus and Malawi cichlids (obviously not together!) but as mentioned, i don't have the tank for either...just yet!

So i have decided to go with a shoal of rummy nose and cardinal tetra, about 4 golden rams and a bristlenose plec!

 

[Snowfire]

Well, the new tank arrived on Monday morning & I spent the whole day getting it set up. The water was cloudy so I got the filter running with just the floss in place and left it to settle for a couple of days. Yesterday i added the 'ceramic rings' & 'bio balls' to the media trays. The filter system is in the hood of the tank with a power head leading to a spray bar directed into 5 trays Inge hood which the water flows through and back into the tank. I don't know how well this system will work long term & will consider upgrading the filtration at some point.
I added some of the dirty media out of my old filter and let it run. I then caught the SAEs out of my other tank and after acclimatising them for around an hour released them into their new home. They looked a bit lost in the much bigger tank a went off to hide in the plants. Today they've had some algae wafer but still a bit shy. I did a water test this evening to check nothing awful was going on:
pH 6.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5!
I can't believe everything is ok already, I'm thinking I might add some more fish tomorrow, perhaps a school of tetras (Colombian or diamond) and keep an eye on the levels over the weekend. I still have the pf3 running in my old tank so if things do go down hill I'll just move that in to help out!

 

[Gawang]

Remember, there's no such thing as going too slow when starting up a new tank!

 

[Snowfire]

Here's an update and a couple of questions:
The tank has been running for around 3 weeks and all seems well. Current stock is:
2 SAE
4 Angelfish

I wanted to separate the angels in my old tank for a while so I've taken out the smaller one and put it with 3 new babies in the new tank. I've had them living together for almost a fortnight now and the babies are growing quickly
Water parameters are steady, testing twice a week now and the nitrates have only been above 5 ( not quite 10) once. I did a 30% pwc using buckets which was a killer so am looking into making a DIY python (impossible to get the real thing in uk).
I'm planning to keep the stock as it is until the angels are bigger but am thinking it would be nice to have some bigger peaceful fish and and a larger school of tetras ( still thinking diamond)
so I've been looking at rainbow fish, there seems to be so many types and they all seem to have different needs.
I used to have some Dwarf neons (praecox) which were lovely but didn't do well in my small tank. I would like some more of those but would really like something bigger too. I'm wondering if you can pick and mix or should I just have a school of one type? Maybe 3 red & 3 bows mani? Would the rainbows annoy the angels with their speed & playfulness?
Why is it so difficult deciding on stock for a new tank?
Here's how it looks at the moment:

 

[Snowfire]

Don't ask why the maps there, did that by accident! Oh and sorry for such a long post